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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;dougsmit, post: 2761882, member: 19463&quot;]Obviously but more to the point is the fact that the good guys also lose out when you buy a genuine coin from an unethical dealer or when you fail to hold the usually ethical crowd to their usually high standards.&nbsp; That could be a note pointing out the coin described as smoothed that was actually an obvious tooler.&nbsp; Dealers I want to patronize want their catalogs to be accurate and not filled with euphemisms.&nbsp; Dealers like the ones discussed above do not care if they lose your business since they have plenty of others that spend more than you do.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I disapprove of using the term &#039;patina&#039; to refer to coins chemically toned.&nbsp; Patinas are not something that rests on the surface of the coin but they are the surface of the coin. I know we have coins darkened by chemicals and tones created in the first few molecules but are we seeing the kind of deep and thick change we used to believe was created only over time?&nbsp; We have always stretched a point and used the term Tiber Patina to mean &#039;no real patina but a yellow tone like you see on river coins&#039; and Sand Patina to mean &#039;hard deposits on the surface&#039;. Do you distinguish between the term &#039;patina&#039; and the term &#039;surface color&#039;?</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I still make a distinction between these two classes.&nbsp; Roma is a business.&nbsp; VCoins and eBay are groups of independent businesses linked together for some purposes.&nbsp; I used to trust VCoins to be more than just a common advertising medium but they lost that when they added too many of the wrong dealers and became more like eBay in some ways.&nbsp; Now I do not discriminate against a seller because he sells via VCoins or eBay but I do not trust a new seller on either just because they allowed him to join.&nbsp; There is a difference between a barrel of apples with a few rotten ones included and a single fruit with only one bad side.&nbsp; I will select a good apple after examining it for worms but I&#039;m not hungry enough to eat around the worm in the damaged fruit.&nbsp; When you patronize dealers of questionable ethics, you are saying you need them so bad that the worms are no problem. </p><p><br /></p><p>It is easier if we just don&#039;t look and never know what we missed.&nbsp; I am fortunate to be able to find enough coins I want from sources I can tolerate to exhaust my budget.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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