Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Morality, legality and auction collusion
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Volodya, post: 2793659, member: 19615"]It's tricky TIF, it really is, and mostly various shades of grey. The more formal an arrangement is, the less grey it becomes. I doubt any arrangement you'll be party to will be unethical in many people's eyes, let alone illegal. As Nerva notes in the OP, no one will object if you refrain from bidding against a friend on one or several lots. (I'll mention in passing though that imo no friend has a valid complaint if you <i>do </i>bid against them. It <i>is </i>an auction, after all.) </p><p><br /></p><p>At the other extreme, there's a famous story of an auction of US coins 100 or more years ago. I don't remember the collector or auction house involved or know how this story was exposed. I'm pretty sure it isn't apocryphal though. This was pre-Internet obviously, and before even the wide distribution of printed catalogues. Auctions were attended almost exclusively by dealers. The handful of dealers physically attending this auction pre-arranged the entire sale; Dealer A would buy lots 1, 3 & 5; Dealer B would buy lots 2, 4 & 6, etc. These guys duly won all or almost all of the lots at the minimum opening bid. That evening, they got together in a hotel room and held the <b>real </b>auction, bidding like crazy against each other, but with none of the proceeds going to the auction house or consignor. </p><p><br /></p><p>Presumably no one will defend that sort of collusion, but again, there's a lot of grey between <i>that </i>on the one hand and you and Z agreeing not to bid each other up on a handful of lots on the other. Picture yourself as the consignor some day; how would you react if you learned that your proceeds had been dramatically reduced because all of the most active collectors had agreed beforehand on who would win which lot?</p><p><br /></p><p>Phil Davis[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Volodya, post: 2793659, member: 19615"]It's tricky TIF, it really is, and mostly various shades of grey. The more formal an arrangement is, the less grey it becomes. I doubt any arrangement you'll be party to will be unethical in many people's eyes, let alone illegal. As Nerva notes in the OP, no one will object if you refrain from bidding against a friend on one or several lots. (I'll mention in passing though that imo no friend has a valid complaint if you [I]do [/I]bid against them. It [I]is [/I]an auction, after all.) At the other extreme, there's a famous story of an auction of US coins 100 or more years ago. I don't remember the collector or auction house involved or know how this story was exposed. I'm pretty sure it isn't apocryphal though. This was pre-Internet obviously, and before even the wide distribution of printed catalogues. Auctions were attended almost exclusively by dealers. The handful of dealers physically attending this auction pre-arranged the entire sale; Dealer A would buy lots 1, 3 & 5; Dealer B would buy lots 2, 4 & 6, etc. These guys duly won all or almost all of the lots at the minimum opening bid. That evening, they got together in a hotel room and held the [B]real [/B]auction, bidding like crazy against each other, but with none of the proceeds going to the auction house or consignor. Presumably no one will defend that sort of collusion, but again, there's a lot of grey between [I]that [/I]on the one hand and you and Z agreeing not to bid each other up on a handful of lots on the other. Picture yourself as the consignor some day; how would you react if you learned that your proceeds had been dramatically reduced because all of the most active collectors had agreed beforehand on who would win which lot? Phil Davis[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Morality, legality and auction collusion
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...