Why don't modern Greek issues, not Euro's obviously, get the same respect as other modern European coinage. I think they are very handsome coins. Is it because of the ancient Greek coins? Which I will admit are much more historically interesting, really old and ya, kinda cool. Or is it just a phase or fade by coin shops to drop UNC modern Greek coinage into a foreign bin as junk coins? I've seen it...them holding up, praising and salivating over ancient Greek coins. Kinda like Gollum with his ring in the Lord of the Rings movie. Anyhow.... I posted a few on my "Albums" page. Take a look! Gimmie know...
We talked about this not too long ago here. I have started collecting them recently and I think they're very cool. There's a lot of different designs and they have neat classical themes. I was really excited when I bought the 1973 20 drachmai with the person on the horse. I got four of them and listed one on eBay for a few bucks, figuring it would be a quick sell. Well, I've listed it three or four times with no takers. People just don't seem interested for some reason in these coins.
I agree with you completely! They are some beautiful coins. Some of the "ancients" purists poo-poo the modern designs, but they are still infinitely better than some of the boring "dead presidents" issues of U.S. coinage. Here are a couple I have:
Can you imagine a proof coin from the U.S. with a mintage of less than 5,000 pieces selling for less than $70 graded by PCGS? I bought this one for around $65 back in April.
If you run across one, you should try to pick up a 1978 proof set. There were only 20,000 minted!! That's not too many to go around if the demand picks up even a little. By the way, very nice pick-ups and nice pictures in your album...I just figured out how to get to your album
Oh come on! While I am appreciative of the fact that the Greeks have a great numismatic heritage, this coin is a blatant copy of a Carthaginian coin. If anyone should be copying this design, it should be the Tunisians, or at least the Spanish or Sicilians.
Hmm...I didn't know that. I always thought that it looked like the horses' head in the first Godfather movie.
Well they do lump us together on this board. Sorry for the distraction, its just upon seeing that coin any ancient collector will immediately say "Carthage" to himself. While modern day books lump Carthage under "greek" coins, a Carthaginian would have stomped your face if you ever dared called him a Greek. Chris
The later date Greek moderns should do pretty well once the Greek economy turns around in a couple years. The problem right now is that these are a little more common than the older moderns and the demand is a little lower. With moderns just a little supply is enough to hold prices low because the demand isn't there and collectors can usually col- lect circulated coins for next to nothing. My experience though is that the '70's issues in nice shape were only set aside in about four times the numbers of the '50's era and this still won't be nearly enough. Attrition will take care of a lot of them and this number is still small. A little patience should go a long way with the post-'65 Greek issues.
Hmm, the horse's head sure is a symbol of Carthage and the Phoenicians, but it was used on Phoenician coins from Sicily for example as well. (I am not a collector of ancients, and I don't like being "lumped together" here either, but I have that 20 lepta coin. And I do like to know what is depicted on the pieces I have. ) Now Sicily could indeed be considered part of the ancient Greek world. When it comes to using "foreign" symbols on modern Greek coins, there is one pretty bad case: the 100 drachmes coin issued in the '90s (dated 1990 to 2000). It shows the Vergina Sun that Macedonia picked as the symbol of the country when it became independent from Yugoslavia. In the conflict about Greek Macedonia vs Yugoslav-and-then-independent Macedonia (FYROM), Greece wanted to keep them from using that symbol. (Vergina is, and the Sun/Star was found, in Greek Macedonia.) So they used it on a Greek circulation coin which was first issued after the Republic of Macedonia became independent. No problem - they simply put the date "1990" on the piece ... Christian
Christian, isn't that the coin with Alexander the Great on the reverse? He was from Macedon but was a Greek ruler, so that's kind of a gray area it seems to me. We know borders changed quite a bit in history and the Greek civilization goes back thousands of years.
Macedon was always considered "greek", they were what the classical greeks considered "barbaric cousins", or "country greeks" as it were. They would make fun of their accent, but it was still greek. Regarding Christian's comment about Sicily being Greek, that would only be true of the Greek settlements there. Any coins struck with this particular horse's head was only struck under the authority of Carthaginian masters after Carthage had conquered the area. He is very right Carthage was Phoenician, but again Phoenician were not Greeks, even though modern day numismatists lump all of these non-Roman coins together as "Greek". I would say at least a third of all coins in Sears "Greek Coins" book were struck by people who would kill you if you dared referred to them as Greeks, so the problem is ours, not theirs. Again, sorry if off topic, I just wanted to make this point clear to everyone. On topic, thank you for the posts regarding these modern coins, as I do find them attractive, like many European coins versus our lame coins in the US. This has been a helpful thread. Chris
Just a clarification about Sicily, as I've been there many times and have many Sicilian friends. I don't think you can call Sicily really any one nationality or historical group of peoples. They have historically been conquered by the Greeks, Phoenicians, Normans, Germans, Romans, Arabs, etc. etc. etc. In fact, after World War II most Sicilians would have preferred to become a protectorate of the United States. Even today, most Sicilians do not identify themselves as "Italians" per se. They are "Sicilians", and even the Italians across the very narrow straight of Messina in Calabria are considered very different. If you meet a Sicilian they will most likely identify themselves in this order: Sicilian, then their Sicilian region (e.g., Catania), and then Italian...they are an interesting bunch!
Very correct sir. By the point in time I am referring, the island had been settled numerous times by various nationalities, so even before the Carthaginians came to conquer Greek strongholds, there were other cities on the island with different cultural backgrounds, so even at Syracuse's apogee the entire island was not "Greek". Barclay Head's Historia Numorum is an excellent read on this very subject, going over every city on the island and where culturally they came from. Even after Roman occupation Sicily was a combination of cultures, then as you refer the Arab, Norman, Byzantine, etc conquests each left a mark on this fascinating bit of land. You are also correct about many Sicilians considering themselves Sicilian before Italian. This is true, though, of most of Italy. Americans have a hard time understanding just how fragmented that country is. I have a cousin married to a northern Italian, and going there you quickly hear how little they wish to remain associated with the rest of Italy. Italy and Germany both start 1870 ununified and then bacame one nation. With Germany it took, with Italy I believe its still very much thought of as a collection of smaller nations today. Chris
Most in the North (north of the Po River) think of themselves as the money making professional class supporting the rest of the country. Most in the south think of themselves as the true Italians culturally (they have Rome, Naples, and a much more laid back and less Germanic mentality). Sicilians consider themselves separate from either the North or the South mentality. It is complicated and interesting...but I guess somewhat of a tangent for this thread.
