Featured Modern counterfeit world coins... train your eyes, get your game up

I had a rather rude slap in the face moment from a ebay buyer, claiming that the coins that I am selling are way too overpriced. I wasn't too sure what he meant until he referenced this:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/worldcoinse...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

So what is the problem? Sure a lot of his past sales are a bargain, if and only if they are genuine!!! Most of the silver crowns look almost too good however the copper coins are a dead give away.

I had to explain to the buyer that they are not genuine and he was more than welcome to buy coins from this seller as long he is aware that they are not genuine. Haven't heard since.

This is another reminder of why counterfeits are just bad for the market. If you are a seller, I'm sure you'll find this insulting.

 

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This thread has good info post a coin or ask a question you could get some help

 

I am finally on my chapter on Modern Chinese fakes. Contact me privately if you have some good fakes for me to do XRF.

Will include in book. I can also send you the chapter John59,numismat,gx series if you want to peer review the draft chapter for comments. Probably at the end of July 2015. Just starting it as of two weeks ago. About 10-15 pages.


johnmenc@optonline.net

John Lorenzo
United States
Numismatist

 

Those 1 cash coins look to be straight out of the oven They are also the more likely ones to fool people over the rest of the stuff this seller has.

 

I don't know that XRF on the more typical fakes will be useful, the metal composition varies so widely and is also so far off from genuine coins that anyone who knows a thing handling them will know. As for the high quality ones, unfortunately they still tend to sell for good money and are fakes of expensive coins, so acquiring them puts some pain on the pocket.
I'd be glad to review your finished work, I'm sure others would be as well. Just let us know when it's done. And best of luck with your new book.

 

John, I wish you all the best. Happy to do a review of it when it's ready.

I do have a collection of counterfeit which ranges from contemporary counterfeits to some of the modern 'super' counterfeits. As acknowledged previously, it's the shipping fees that kills it.

Some counterfeits I own are actually very disturbing which one article in NGC covers such counterfeit. http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewart...-coin-counterfeit-China-East-Hopei-1937-Chiao

I think I also own a 1940 Hua Hsing counterfeit which is also a low value coin at UNC at around 20-50 dollars. I also have a counterfeit 1 yuan (previously circulated) coin which is worth a mere 12 US cent at face value. Think it was dated 1994 or 1997? Still looking for it as I misplaced it somewhere.

 

Its mostly the "J" Factory in China coins I have analyzed not China coins. There is only so many ways to fake silver: Fe/Ni; German Silver and Debased Silver with copper,brass or bronze - usually copper. Not talking gold which is probably brass. I think Numismat posted a Chine Factory seller on some E-Bay site in Asia. Can you repost that link. I will just post 3 or 4 examples as all these silver pieces are alike ... IMO we can never save the beginner collector that buys raw and is thinking great buy ... in many ways he is doomed.

JPL

 

Here are a couple more recent ones.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/nanc_hopp/m...00&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

http://www.ebay.com/sch/usfel_8bsjx...00&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

 

Here's some dangerous counterfeit for sale.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/lancus_8hvbf6he/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=200

Another one is this

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...3.A0.H0.Xrestrike.TRS1&_nkw=restrike&_sacat=0

There are no official restrikes of the early Russian commemorative coins. Restrike is just false advertisement. While the Soviet commemorative coins look ok, the rest are not.

Interesting to see that sellers are now waiting for a few months instead of just opening a brand new account and sell straight away.

 

What astonishes me so much is that these are basically the same fakes that you used to sell on ebay for $3-$4 maybe less. I just can't believe the amount of money they're getting for them. It looks like nobody is noticing that they're fake! At least the buyers. Keep up the good work, this is very interesting and important.

I belong to a stamp society and one of the first things on our page is we discuss fakes. We consider it to be one of the most important subjects that could hurt the hobby. I wish there was more of this like you and others are doing on these forums.

 

These are beyond what people used to sell for $3-$4, that is the real problem and reason they are selling for so much (combined with shill bidding).
It's great that clubs take time to discuss fakes, this is becoming more and more important.

 

I agree with you that these are beyond the cheap ones. But even the cheap ones now are better quality than ever. I'm not amazed at the prices they're getting. A lot of new people are coming into the collecting field. When a genuine one is being sold for say $800 and you have one up for auction for $400, with so many new collectors they think they're getting a bargain. Plus I have seen established dealers put up a fake every now and then saying "I'm not sure if it's genuine" and you see that some do go for good prices. So even the dealers are cashing in on this.

Just a little note: the big thing in stamp collecting now is the 1980 China monkey stamp. When this stamp came out it was less than a dollar. Now it's over a thousand dollars. The thing that amazes us, at least in stamp collecting, 90% of the ones on ebay are fake and the trusted dealers that sell them are from China! The Chinese stamp market is unbelievably hot. Here in the US, across Europe and China. Most of the large auctions are done in Hong Kong. This is just one stamp of many from 1980s that are in the thousands. I don't know how good the Chinese coin market is.

 

The Chinese coin market has cooled down from a huge peak 2-3 years ago. At one point coins that were going for $100-$150 jumped to 3x that price within a matter of just a few months. The market is still pretty strong, but so many fakes came out during the peak that I think it imploded in on itself a bit.

 

Missed reading the earlier posts. Will reply after this.

This is a seller that blends genuine coins and counterfeit coins for sale. He might have some currently on sale at the moment so I figured they will be under the completed section shortly.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Coins-Paper...ipg=25&LH_Complete=1&_ssn=kvazimodosun&_sac=1

Again, there are some years that are just extremely rare. No way would they sell for just a mere hundred dollars.

 

The Chinese coin market is an interesting market. What made the prices shoot up like a rocket is during the GFC - the Chinese just couldn't trust banks and stock related for investments. Coupled with the strong nationalism and an interest in reviving the great Chinese history, this made the market explode. Prior to that, many Chinese crown coins were sold for close to melt value. I still regret not getting a hoard of them back then.

While the market has definitely cooled as the economy is not doing too well, scarcer coins are still performing very well. In particular high grade coins from the Qing dynasty and proof mint set from 1980s. I guess the most obvious point is that people who are born from this era are in their prime working age have the money to spend a good fortune on such coins. They may want to past them down to their grandchildren. Low mintage figures and poor survival rates also help to boost the figures.

I'm a big fan of the early Chinese commemorative coins such as the 1985 1 yuan featuring Xinjiang and 1986 1 yuan featuring Year of Peace. Try to find them in proof condition - they may need more than an arm and leg!

 

The Chinese use coins and stamps the same way we use the stock market
and the Chinese have more saving accounts then any other people they do trust banks more then we do.
China was a closed society for many years and still is to a point but now they can buy and sell coins ,stamps,ect more so now then before there have been up and down in the price over the years just like our coins and stamps

 

Some super counterfeits for sale again. Not too much hope for some of the buyers...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/ashdei/m.ht...25&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

http://www.ebay.com/sch/suacco/m.ht...25&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

http://www.ebay.com/sch/lislisguerr/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3692

 

A bunch lot of Russian counterfeits that were sold. Quite sad to be honest. A counterfeiter might as well quit his / her day job and make this a full time job. (obviously not recommended)

Maybe we should flood listings with similar pictures and then warn buyers about such counterfeits.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/0_43714/m.h...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

http://www.ebay.com/sch/16toyota191...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

 

its scary to see at really what is fake out there =0X

 

Counterfeits from Japan and Korea are getting quite good. Here are sellers that sell very similar products.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/ander.dye/m...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

http://www.ebay.com/sch/barba.dicks...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

http://www.ebay.com/sch/zul8822/m.h...lete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

Let's be realistic - these coins are often sold for more than 1000+ dollars. A quick check at Heritage reveals that a Japanese trade dollar is within the range of 1000 dollars and the Korean 5 yang is around 2500. In particular the Korean 1893 1 whan has been sold for nearly 20,000 dollars if you can even find one to start off with. Mintage number is at a very low 77 as the majority of these coins were melted down. Here's one example that was sold many years ago.

http://coins.ha.com/itm/world-coins...yi-hyong-silver-1-whan-year-502-/a/230-6901.s

Does 100 dollar sound like a bargain after knowing it's a counterfeit? I don't think so.