MN Bullion Law Amended!

Happy that a representative from my small town played a key role in these revisions.

http://news.coinupdate.com/controversial-minnesota-law-regulating-bullion-sales-is-amended/

 

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Seems to be an improvement over what was previous there. However while they excluded coin shows and out of state transactions, products shipped there still appear to be subjected to it. Helpful overall but I would guess many online sellers will still choose to not ship there.

 

Out of a strong 5 figure dollar sum, I've only had 4 firms indicate preference to not ship since implementation of the statute, which I believe reasonable.

It's normal to receive a couple auction cancellation requests/year from dealers who've sold their product at too low a price, to cancel an auction, so the count is considered normal.

Coin shows in the Twin City metropolis are still available monthly, and Craigslist activity is still relatively active. It appears that just the outstate "scammers" (e.g. "bait and switch", offer to consign, but removed upon receiving coins outstate, lowball offers after receiving coins outstate, etc.) have been reduced, for which we're pleased. I believe these activities are still being observed for possible prosecution.

The interaction with Federal prosecutors/courts seems to have had a positive effect in reducing outstate dealers stealing assets from clients in another state. It's believed that continued reporting/surveillance and prosecution of these objectionable activities will establish a healthy National Numismatic interstate commerce system.

JMHO

 

There are numerous dealers and ebay sellers that refuse to ship to Minnesota. It has impacted far more than just scammers, not that scammers even care that law exists in the first place. More may have realized as long as they never set foot in Minnesota the chances of anyone extraditing them there for not registering is low but just browsing dealer sites you still see a lot that say they won't sell there.

That law in practice really just eliminated the competition for those who supported it. I would bet money not a single scammer has started to scam someone and then said "Oh darn, Minnesota has a law I will just scam other states". Scams were already illegal in the first place before that law ever existed.

 

I beg to differ, as future actions may show exceptions to your statements, but your valued contribution as a credible witness may be desired/considered for inclusion.

I suspect that I've far more interaction with internet sales than yourself, but may be incorrect, as you speak/state with authority.

I, and I'm certain numerous others, would rather not impose on the sellers who don't openly state their objection to Minnesota sales. I'm constantly contacted by some of these vendors, but as with telephone efforts, allow them to waste their time/monies before rejecting their offers.

It would be greatly appreciated if an expert as yourself would post a list of sellers who object to MN sales, as I've circulated a preferred sellers list amongst associates. If you'd rather not openly publish your stated extensive list, please PM me with same and I'll try to ascertain that their contact with MN buyers is reduced.

Thanks in advance for your understanding, and cooperative efforts to reduce unnecessary interaction with undesirables.

 

@imrich, MCM or ModernCoinMart whom I believe is out of Florida, Han a MN no sell clause. At least they did last time I bought anything from them. They are an eBay seller. I've not bought a lot from them but what I have I've not had any issue with.

 

I've heard some say Vcoins, a popular ancient coin dealer, won't sell to MN and I also believe Heritage won't sell to us here, though they apparently still want my consignments which would still fall under the law if I'm not mistaken.

 

I'm not providing you a list for people to start trying to sue or do who knows what with given you call them undesirables for not wanting to deal with the silly law that does nothing. Especially not for someone who openly advocated for Federally Regulated grading standards. The information is all over the internet at well.

I would love to hear an explanation on how fraud and theft laws were ignored by thefts and scammers, but now this law is respected and making it safer.

 

One way things have been made safer here is the complete evaporation of traveling buyers that imitate antiques roadshow and operate for a weekend from a motel and are gone when their checks bounce. I certainly did find find them undesirable sucking up the local offerings like the leeches they are.

 

That's not because of the law though. That's because metal buying shops across the country have almost all gone under. Those are only popular and popping up during strong rising prices.

Also writing bad checks was already illegal. That new law won't stop that either when people are in and out in under a weekend, people knowingly writing bad checks and skipping town don't care about laws.

 

Well, before the law, they ran through here twice a year under different names, much the same way SEGS is apparently operated, and after the law they are gone. Poof. Probably avoided the debts from those checks the same way SEGS avoids backing its own guarantee.

 

Before the law that was the largest metal price run up of the last 30 years, they popped up everywhere. After the law that was a crashing market. Just because the rooster crows at sunrise does not mean the crow causes the sun to rise. They disappeared on their own as the market dried up and people stopped selling so much. If metals see that run up again that law or not they'll be back.

Possibly though such small operations are probably more likely opened up using fake names and they just keep bouncing around never stopping in the same place twice. Scams like that have been around pretty much as long as money has.

 

I apologize if the impression was created that sellers who don't want to sell in MN are anything less than quality individuals. I've met some wonderful individuals who have informed me after I had won an auction that the firms policy was not to take chances with sales to MN.

I don't believe that any objective MN buyer would be offended because a quality outstate firm is concerned about sales to a state having a controversial law which may adversely effect them.

I posted a request to another for a list of those firms not wanting to deal with undesirable MN buyers, so that we could inform our buyers when they are considering a coin purchase outstate, as some sellers don't want to deliver coins to this state, but don't include a notice in their auctions.

I believe I speak for the majority of MN buyers, as it's believed there's a receptive seller for virtually any product desired.

JMHO

 

While I'm happy the bar requiring the bond was raised, and will make it a point to thank Mr. Tomassoni publicly via local publication, I will also see if he may be receptive to constituent suggestions. I aim to see that shipment here alone does not fall under the statute.

While the traveling troupes have vanished, those small shops have been withering away under the 5k bar.

 

Those places were totally legit under the law as it stood. One such was traceable under 12 different names over the course of a few years.

 

You're describing two different types of places then. Places that right bad checks and skip town knowing they haven't paid for their inventory have never been legal. Simply under paying someone with an offer and them accepting it has and still is legal.

PS I agree with you to remove the shipping to MN part as well.

 

The small Gold Guys shop that opened locally during the bubble is still here, while the crooks like those Treasure Hunters Roadshow are not here, but continue to run out of state. The difference is that instead of running them out of town after town, now they can expect an inspection immediately instead of after pulling a magic trick with people's bullion and their broken promises to pay for it.

If you care to google them you will will see that both types fit nicely into one fermenting, odorous package and avoided much through the Trump school of business model of bankruptcies and changing names.

While that may have been enough prior, now all a name change does is constitute a new registration/bond requirement that falls with the owners and cannot be limited to a company itself that can go defunct and disappear.

 

I'm proud to say today that I was contacted by Ms. Watts right here on CT and remain glad to have played a role in her investigative journalism. It is not legal to misrepresent the value of an item you are appraising for the purpose of buying to resell.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/major-us-gold-buyer-shuts-down-in-wake-of-fraud/

 

Under paying is entirely different than lying about the value which is fraud which was already illegal. An example of under paying would be offering less than half of spot. Misrepresenting the value would be lying about what spot price is or lying about how much gold is there or the purity ect.

 

The actual crooks this law supposedly protects people from and the fly by night operators are never registering in the first place. There are a million ways the fraudsters can/will/and do operate that that law will have no impact on. If you like it that's your right but the law won't stop any fraudsters or fly by night scammers.