Mis-Cut $20 Bill (Update)

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by Cherd, Mar 2, 2024.

  1. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    Hello All,

    I posted about this in a previous thread a couple months ago, that thread can be found here:


    And, to refresh your memories, here is the photo again:


    Well, my brother sent it to PMG, and the note came back as sent along with this:


    What are your thoughts? Do you think that they definitively determined that it was counterfeit? Or are they just not sure?

    Wouldn't it be nice if TPGs put even the slightest bit of effort into providing us with more details when it comes to things like this? Taking the fees and mailing things back with a one word description seems a bit problematic.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2024
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  3. SteveInTampa

    SteveInTampa Always Learning

    Have you checked for the security strip and a watermark ?
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  4. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    I did. I'm certainly no expert on this kind of thing, but in the thread provided above I posted a picture of the bill in front of a light to show the strip and watermark. Forum members here seemed to think that they were legit.
    SteveInTampa likes this.
  5. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    That's is. It states it on the right side with the big letters QA. That sucks.
    capthank and Cherd like this.
  6. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    Ya, but I thought that maybe they use "Questionable" instead of "Definitely" even in cases where they know for sure. With our legal system the way that it is (everything is about liability avoidance), companies tend to be warry of taking hard stances on things when they can be ambiguous instead. This is pretty damn ambiguous! :(

    The literal interpretation is:

    "Ehhhh, we're not sure, so we're not going to risk it. Thanks for the money, but no slab for you!"

    Which is frustrating because the slab is the whole point of having spent the money.

    By the way, are currency slabs called "slabs".... or something else?
  7. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    I'm no expert, but from I see on this post and on its predecessor, you have become more of an expert on this bill than whoever looked at it at PMG. :(
    Cherd likes this.
  8. lettow

    lettow Senior Member

    Have you shined a UV light on the security strip to see if it fluoresces?

    I believe you can call or email PMG to ask what they saw. The finalizer would have made notes in their file.
    Cherd likes this.
  9. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    The note is real, no question. It’s the cutting of the note that is questionable.
    Cherd likes this.
  10. Coins4Eli

    Coins4Eli Collector of Early American Copper

    But still, as in the first thread, how did it happen? If the note is genuine then how on earth is part of another note attached? PMG ruled it as "Questionable Authenticity" is that in relation to the actual note or just the "error"? It seems to me that there are only two options of what could have happened, either it's a legit error and PMG messed up or it's a scary good counterfeit. Still with either option there are lots of questions that need to be answered. @Cherd Have you tried calling PMG and asking for an explanation? It might be worth a shot.
    Cherd likes this.
  11. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Not sure how it happened or how to explain it but to me, from photos, it looks real. I question the cut itself. It just looks off, odd or whatever term you want to use and I think that’s what they are saying. Calling them is probably the best way to go to get an explanation.
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  12. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    I would just call them and get the information pretty easy to get the
    answers directly from the horses mouth.
    Coins4Eli likes this.
  13. VistaCruiser69

    VistaCruiser69 Well-Known Member

    How would a bill cut that big not have any issues with going through bill counters and wrappers at the mint? There is absolutely no damage to any of the corners or edges. I'd think it would have gotten hung up on machinery somewhere along the line.

    Is it possible someone bought a sheet of uncut bills and then purposely cut them out bad to create interest? I go on ebay and I see lots of uncut sheets of paper currency for sale. Does the mint release uncut sheets of paper currency? If so, why?

    I found a $1 bill in my change recently that was noticeably smaller than the rest. Initially I thought that it could be a mint error, but after close analysis, I realized that someone just cut the bill smaller on all sides. The images on both sides were exactly the same size as a regular bill. So, the only difference was a little paper around each side of the bill had been removed/cut off. I figured it was done for some type of magic trick or something. Since its smaller than regular bills, it can be easily pulled from a stack of bills. Figured it was a gambling game or magic trick bill of some type.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2024
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  14. VistaCruiser69

    VistaCruiser69 Well-Known Member

    This thread's got me in the mood for one of my favorite movies when I was teen back in the mid-80s. I think I'm going to watch this on DVD tonight after work:

  15. Coins4Eli

    Coins4Eli Collector of Early American Copper

    If you take a look in the previous thread, you will see that I suggested the same idea. The other forum members were quick to point out that they haven't sold sheets for the series of 2017.
    VistaCruiser69 likes this.
  16. VistaCruiser69

    VistaCruiser69 Well-Known Member

    My next question would be: "How does a larger bill than normal make it completely out of the mint and through the banking system without getting hung up on or damaged by machinery along the way? There isn't even any slight evidence anywhere on the bill of getting hung up machinery (bill counters, wrappers, ATM, etc.). Every corner and side of the bill is crisp." That's my next question. Stacks of $20's are banded up together. If a bill inside such a stack is larger than all the rest of the bills, wouldn't the larger bill show a fold or folds along the sides/edges that overhang the rest of the bills in the stack?
    Coins4Eli likes this.
  17. Coins4Eli

    Coins4Eli Collector of Early American Copper

    Agreed, you're asking the right questions. This is what made me question its authenticity in the first place.
    VistaCruiser69 likes this.
  18. VistaCruiser69

    VistaCruiser69 Well-Known Member

    This bill obviously skipped over the "dryer cycle with the casino chips inside" step. ;)
    Coins4Eli likes this.
  19. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    I called, and didn't end up with much more information than I had previously. I described the situation and the person said,

    "QA(Questionable Authenticity) means that the evaluator could not make a determination about whether the note was counterfeit or legitimate... and/or.... could not determine whether alterations had been made."

    She did look up the submission to see if there was additional information and there was none to be found.

    She did explain that my brother had only been charged for shipping and handling though, so that makes me feel a bit better. (even though I'm sure S&H are probably outrageous!)
  20. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    So, I'd like to give my brother some good advice on how to proceed. Should he try his luck with PCGS? Attempt to provide additional information to get the bill in a sleeve?

    I guess what I'm ultimately asking is...... What type of value would this note have if the error was legitimized and sleeved by PMG or PCGS? Neither my brother nor I are collectors of this type of thing, so the potential profit is honestly the ultimate driving factor here.

    Any guesses?
  21. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    Could this be one of those sheets you can buy from the US Mint then cut up yourself ? Then someone just cut it off and put it into circulation?
    ZoidMeister likes this.
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