Minting Pennies

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Williammm, May 25, 2019.

  1. Williammm

    Williammm Member

    Should we just mint pennies every 5 or so years, in Japan they only mint their 1 yen coin only when supply runs down so should we do the same for circulation pennies. And also should we make solid copper pennies for collectors only?
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  3. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

    Does Japan stockpile them? And cycke through various coinage?
    How many are in circulation compared to US Cents?
    What's the demand comparison?

    Are you familiar with the current demand based distribution amd manufacture of us coinage?

    Just asking as the answers may reveal why the US MINT does it one way and Japan another way.
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  4. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    Maybe the Japanese population actually uses the 1 yen coin.

    In the US it's quite unusual for someone to spend a cent.
  5. Dave M

    Dave M Francophiliac

    I'm curious as to why Japan would do this for their 1yen, and (presumably) not for all the other coins. But presumably if the economics makes sense, then might could be worth looking at.

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It wouldn't work here because the demand for them is way too high.

    Are you aware of how the US Mint determines how many of what coins to mint in any given coming year ? And they make this determination the previous year of course. They base the number of coins they are going to mint on orders for the coins from the Federal Reserve. And each Federal Reserve branch bases their individual orders on orders they receive from their individual member banks. And each one of those banks base their orders on the request for coins from their customers.

    Bottom line, the source for the coin orders are the people of the country - us !

    What the govt. should do is simply do away with the 1 cent coin, and the 5 cent coin, entirely and switch to rounding. But every time they try to pass a law to do that, the people have a cow refuse to allow it. Why ? Because they cannot get it through their heads that rounding works. In other words, they simply refuse to believe the laws of mathematics - which cannot lie. But they refuse to believe it anyway because they don't understand mathematics.
  7. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    If they stopped minting the cent for one year they would probably never start again. Before the year was up you would have shortages and businesses would start rounding. And once the rounding gets firmly established there is no reason to go back.
  8. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Well-Known Member

  9. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    So do ducks. And witches. And really small rocks.

  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    They don't really float in water, they are light enough that with careful placement they won't break the surface tension of the water. They aren't floating IN water they can sit ON the water. Break the surface tension and they drop to the bottom.
    Tlberg and TheFinn like this.
  11. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Continued minting of the cent is about as dumb as dumb can get. That, of course, means it will continue.
  12. COCollector

    COCollector Well-Known Member

    Agreed. The money-losing aspect is reason enough for me:

    Penny Costs 2.06 Cents to Make in 2018, Nickel Costs 7.53 Cents.

    Fortunately, it only cost 3.23 cents to make a dime, and only 7.78 cents to make a quarter...

    "After subtracting the year’s [2018] cost to produce all four coins, which totaled $541.1 million, the U.S. Mint’s circulating profit or seigniorage for them reached $317.8 million — an 18.8% decline from the previous year’s $391.5 million."
  13. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    As fun as it is to pretend everyone who doesn’t think the way we do is an idiot, I’m extremely skeptical that the only reason we don’t get rid of the cent is because people don’t understand mathematics. Your assertion is not only insulting but indemonstrable.
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    To the contrary, it's extremely demonstrable. And I say that because every time the subject comes up the primary reason voiced by the public against the idea of rounding - is that they do not believe it works. They believe that they will be cheated by rounding.

    And mathematics proves, beyond all doubt, that this is not the case.

    edit - as for the insulting part, well perhaps so. But as they say, the truth often hurts. And I'll add, if it does, so be it.
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    ldhair likes this.
  15. Devyn5150

    Devyn5150 Music Maker Making Change

    I’m not sure on your proposed mathematical equation to reach your conclusions, however, imho, rounding only works when it is consistently done in the consumer’s favour. I’ve been in the 6 cent situation where my Nickel change has not been forwarded, hence, 4 cents gone. Not such a big deal when it’s once but, times that by every purchase in a year and it adds up.
  16. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Prove it. With data. I’ll wait.

    While you’re doing that, here’s some data that is counter to your claim:
    55% of Americans find the cent useful (nothing to do with rounding)
    It costs basically as much to produce the nickel as the cent, so many argue focus should be on cost cutting or different metal use, as there won’t really be any savings when the nickel production must be increased to cover lack of a cent (also, nothing to do with rounding).

    Concerns about charities receiving less funding (again, nothing to do with rounding).

    But of course, the ONLY possible explanation is they’re all idiots. And you, of course, are the only person wise enough to see beyond it. :rolleyes:
    imrich and furryfrog02 like this.
  17. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    It isn't possible to consistently round in the consumers favor. Likewise it isn't possible to consistently round in the businesses favor either. %05 of the time it will go one way, and 50% of the time it will go the other way. (In the long run. If you just look at small runs it can slant toward one or the other, but over time it will eventually even out. Just like flipping a coin.)
  18. chrisild

    chrisild Coin Collector Supporter

    Well, maybe those who more or less recently experienced such changes are "wiser" than those who simply believe that penny (or similarly worthless ;) ) coins are useful ...

    In other words, it might make more sense to ask people in several euro countries, or Canada, or Switzerland, whether doing away with low value coins was a good idea or not. In the Netherlands for example people do have that kind of experience. After a local test in Woerden (at the end of the trial phase, 83% of the consumers responded in a positive way) rounding was introduced nationwide.

    In neighboring Germany however we have not even had a proper test (the experiment in Kleve was half hearted), and we are still plagued with them. :confused: That could possibly be explained by the fact that in NL they had done that kind of rounding in pre-euro years too, while in Germany we had the 1 and 2 Pfennig coins (worth half a cent, and one cent) until the end of 2001.

    Seattlite86 likes this.
  19. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    Our current system uses rounding in nearly every transaction. For example, when sales tax is 9.125% and you by a $1 item. That'd be 109.125 cents yet you are only paying 109 cents. Very few of the deplorable idiots that live in this country know this, yet some of them have an irrational fear of eliminating the cent.
  20. COCollector

    COCollector Well-Known Member

    Probably true for adorable idiots too. :)

    And maybe they'd be massively in favor of eliminating the cent if they knew about the potential "windfall":

    -- Pay cash for your small purchases that round up. Woo hoo! You're an instant winner of 1 or 2 cents.

    -- If your small purchase doesn't round up, pay with a rewards credit card. There's no rounding on card purchases, right? So, you don't lose 1 or 2 cents. And you get the card rewards. It's win-win.

    How much is a small cash purchase? My rule of thumb would be: $10/max for 1-cent gain, or up to $20 for 2-cent gain. YMMV.

    Seriously though, I rarely pay cash now. And I probably wouldn't change my habits just for a few extra cents.
    CoinCorgi likes this.
  21. cladking

    cladking Coin Collector

    Well... ...I wouldn't call the people who graduated from our failed educational system "idiots". Most of them are trainable and some even become lawyers and doctors.

    There would be no additional need for nickels if the penny is abolished because it's rare someone uses five pennies instead of a nickel.
    Seattlite86 likes this.
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