Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Williammm, May 25, 2019.
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How many are in circulation compared to US Cents?
What's the demand comparison?
Are you familiar with the current demand based distribution amd manufacture of us coinage?
Just asking as the answers may reveal why the US MINT does it one way and Japan another way.
In the US it's quite unusual for someone to spend a cent.
It wouldn't work here because the demand for them is way too high.
Are you aware of how the US Mint determines how many of what coins to mint in any given coming year ? And they make this determination the previous year of course. They base the number of coins they are going to mint on orders for the coins from the Federal Reserve. And each Federal Reserve branch bases their individual orders on orders they receive from their individual member banks. And each one of those banks base their orders on the request for coins from their customers.
Bottom line, the source for the coin orders are the people of the country - us !
What the govt. should do is simply do away with the 1 cent coin, and the 5 cent coin, entirely and switch to rounding. But every time they try to pass a law to do that, the people have a cow refuse to allow it. Why ? Because they cannot get it through their heads that rounding works. In other words, they simply refuse to believe the laws of mathematics - which cannot lie. But they refuse to believe it anyway because they don't understand mathematics.
I couldn't find circulating numbers for coinage (just overall BOJ monetary supply stuff)
but found this:
So do ducks. And witches. And really small rocks.
They don't really float in water, they are light enough that with careful placement they won't break the surface tension of the water. They aren't floating IN water they can sit ON the water. Break the surface tension and they drop to the bottom.
Agreed. The money-losing aspect is reason enough for me:
Penny Costs 2.06 Cents to Make in 2018, Nickel Costs 7.53 Cents.
Fortunately, it only cost 3.23 cents to make a dime, and only 7.78 cents to make a quarter...
"After subtracting the year’s  cost to produce all four coins, which totaled $541.1 million, the U.S. Mint’s circulating profit or seigniorage for them reached $317.8 million — an 18.8% decline from the previous year’s $391.5 million."
As fun as it is to pretend everyone who doesn’t think the way we do is an idiot, I’m extremely skeptical that the only reason we don’t get rid of the cent is because people don’t understand mathematics. Your assertion is not only insulting but indemonstrable.
And mathematics proves, beyond all doubt, that this is not the case.
edit - as for the insulting part, well perhaps so. But as they say, the truth often hurts. And I'll add, if it does, so be it.
I’m not sure on your proposed mathematical equation to reach your conclusions, however, imho, rounding only works when it is consistently done in the consumer’s favour. I’ve been in the 6 cent situation where my Nickel change has not been forwarded, hence, 4 cents gone. Not such a big deal when it’s once but, times that by every purchase in a year and it adds up.
Prove it. With data. I’ll wait.
While you’re doing that, here’s some data that is counter to your claim:
55% of Americans find the cent useful (nothing to do with rounding) https://news.gallup.com/poll/23779/penny-worth-saving-say-americans.aspx
It costs basically as much to produce the nickel as the cent, so many argue focus should be on cost cutting or different metal use, as there won’t really be any savings when the nickel production must be increased to cover lack of a cent (also, nothing to do with rounding). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-to-make-a-nickel/?utm_term=.483ca56903d5
Concerns about charities receiving less funding (again, nothing to do with rounding). https://www.bankrate.com/banking/is-the-us-getting-rid-of-the-penny/
But of course, the ONLY possible explanation is they’re all idiots. And you, of course, are the only person wise enough to see beyond it.
It isn't possible to consistently round in the consumers favor. Likewise it isn't possible to consistently round in the businesses favor either. %05 of the time it will go one way, and 50% of the time it will go the other way. (In the long run. If you just look at small runs it can slant toward one or the other, but over time it will eventually even out. Just like flipping a coin.)
Well, maybe those who more or less recently experienced such changes are "wiser" than those who simply believe that penny (or similarly worthless ) coins are useful ...
In other words, it might make more sense to ask people in several euro countries, or Canada, or Switzerland, whether doing away with low value coins was a good idea or not. In the Netherlands for example people do have that kind of experience. After a local test in Woerden (at the end of the trial phase, 83% of the consumers responded in a positive way) rounding was introduced nationwide.
In neighboring Germany however we have not even had a proper test (the experiment in Kleve was half hearted), and we are still plagued with them. That could possibly be explained by the fact that in NL they had done that kind of rounding in pre-euro years too, while in Germany we had the 1 and 2 Pfennig coins (worth half a cent, and one cent) until the end of 2001.
Probably true for adorable idiots too.
And maybe they'd be massively in favor of eliminating the cent if they knew about the potential "windfall":
-- Pay cash for your small purchases that round up. Woo hoo! You're an instant winner of 1 or 2 cents.
-- If your small purchase doesn't round up, pay with a rewards credit card. There's no rounding on card purchases, right? So, you don't lose 1 or 2 cents. And you get the card rewards. It's win-win.
How much is a small cash purchase? My rule of thumb would be: $10/max for 1-cent gain, or up to $20 for 2-cent gain. YMMV.
Seriously though, I rarely pay cash now. And I probably wouldn't change my habits just for a few extra cents.
Well... ...I wouldn't call the people who graduated from our failed educational system "idiots". Most of them are trainable and some even become lawyers and doctors.
There would be no additional need for nickels if the penny is abolished because it's rare someone uses five pennies instead of a nickel.
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