Microscope Or Jewelers Loup?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by brinssig, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    I recently bought an 1878s Morgan dollar on Ebay which I think is a VAM 59 but it is hard to tell with a jewelers loupe. The coin dealer I usually go to to have coins checked out has not been open and I have to soon decide whether or not I should return the coin before it can no longer be returned. The only way I can know for sure is if I look at it with a microscope. The one the coin dealer uses costs around $3,000 dollars which is way too much. Does anyone know of a microscope that is not too expensive but would still show the identifying characteristics of the VAM on the dollar or is there a strong jewelers loupe that would still be just as good which is stronger than the one that I now have?
     
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  3. Galen59

    Galen59 Gott helfe mir

    spend 3k jus go away..
     
  4. ken454

    ken454 Well-Known Member

  5. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    I use a Bausch & Lombe 20X loupe for the real detailed stuff. Works great and not too pricey. Get something of quality.
     
    Sim likes this.
  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Attributing an 1878-S Long Nock is more about knowledge than magnification. A typical loupe should have sufficient magnification to show the details which allow attribution, but in this case it'll be difficult unless you have a known VAM-57 on hand to compare it to. Or, you've seen a sufficient number of each to know the difference offhand.

    By all means, acquire a microscope if you wish, although I will say that the 'scope @ken454 linked costs almost as much as my entire dSLR-based imaging rig. In the case of this coin, though, rather than spend money on a 'scope which won't help unless you're sure of what you're looking at, just send the coin to @messydesk (varslab.com) for attribution for a lot less money. If it's 59, it definitely deserves to be in an attributed slab for potential resale.
     
  7. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Send me a PM if you have any questions about doing this.
     
  8. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    The problem is if I send the coin in to be attributed and it comes back it is a fake then I will have wasted my money. By the time I get back the coin it may be too late to send the coin back to get my money back. I paid $45 for the coin and if it turns out it is a fake the coin won't be worth that much. I am hoping that there is a relatively inexpensive way I can find out if the coin has two or more of the attributes of a VAM 59. I can see what looks like a line going out from the eye and a broken fourth star but I need something with a little higher magnification so I can get a better look and see if this coin is genuine or if it has been faked.
     
  9. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    When you say something of quality what do you mean? What dype of Jewelers loupe should I look for? I already have a 10X power. Is there something that would show a lot more detail?
     
  10. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    There is a relatively inexpensive way. Talk to @messydesk. Look at the website I linked. He's a world-class Morgan specialist with an active business attributing VAMs both in TPG holders and raw. Quite frankly, he's better than PCGS or NGC at attributing....
     
  11. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    May I ask what about the coin makes you question its authenticity?

    That said, if I were you, I would take Messydesk (as per post #6) up on his kind and generous offer; you're not likely to get better help anywhere, including the TPGs.

    By "quality" I can only assume the gentleman is referring to optical quality. The fact is there are many cheap loupes available today that simply do not offer the optical quality one spending any real amount of time examining coins (in detail) should demand; the strain on your eyes simply isn't worth the rather paltry amount (in context) saved over the cost of quality glass.

    Although I am not personally familiar with the loupe mentioned by Finn, they are quite popular and most seem to like them. Other more costly options would be to consider something made by either Zeiss or Eschenbach. I have and used an Eschenbach 3x6x9 that, while expensive, was worth every cent.

    As for magnification, generally speaking 10x should be sufficient for most in-hand detailed examinations imo. However, there's certainly nothing wrong with something stronger if you so desire. I had a 16x for such occasions and never found the need for anything stronger.
     
  12. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    If I got's to see it with a microscope, and not a 7x loupe, it ain't worth looking at or worth buying......
     
    Jaelus likes this.
  13. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    As I said, look for lenses from companies like Bausch & Lomb. They do not distort the image near the edges. If it costs less than $20, probably not a good one.
     
  14. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Loupe selection threads come up now and then. There's a good thread on the PCGS board right now that started out about counterfeit loupes (i.e., lousy Chinese knockoffs of good brands), but it contains a lot of good information. You don't need to sign up for anything to read it.

    Linky
     
  15. coinzip

    coinzip Well-Known Member

    No more squinting for me ... :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    BlackBeard_Thatch likes this.
  16. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Shoot Alan, I should't have to squint a lick. Lovely to enlarge the viewing area, but if I have to enlarge it to the point of ad nauseum to see a certain variety it ain't worth it to me. Splitting hairs on mint state moderns looking for '70's........just so greasy to me.
     
  17. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Celebrating 75 Years Active Collecting Supporter

    I shot this photo with a microscope that I bought on line for about $50. It works directly on your monitor and takes nice photos. Many of the Coin and Stamp suppliers have them. Mine is manufactured by Leuchtturm.

    1883 Liberty Nickel.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  18. heavycam.monstervam

    heavycam.monstervam Outlaw Trucker & Coin Hillbilly

    I remember the thread about this coin.
    If it were me, and i needed a powerful loupe, fast and in a hurry. I would take a trip to Hobby Lobby and spend about $15 on one there. They have a 16x one that ive used for vammimg and to roll search Lincoln cents.
    Assuming you have a Hobby Lobby close to your neck of the woods.
    They work great for identifying varieties, not so good for grading though.

    Otherwise take messy desk up on his offer
     
    Inspector43 likes this.
  19. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Celebrating 75 Years Active Collecting Supporter

    You are right @heavycam.monstervam. I wouldn't use this scope for sorting. I do use it for close-up examination and photos. I have been collecting for 70 years, so, you might guess that my eyes are very old. I have several grades of loups that I use also. Always get name brand loups.
     
  20. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    I got these from Amazon for $10. They're absolutely useless for binocular wear as the two eyepieces focus too close and not to the same close point, but I took the eyepieces off of the frame and now have two 20x loupes, each with an LED light and they are perfect for viewing ultra closeups
    https://www.amazon.com/Eyeglasses-Jeweler-Magnifier-Magnifying-Repair/dp/B00NOCQU8M
    [​IMG]
    I think Walmart has them too.

    For a few dollars more a similar thing with multiple magnifications available can be found here https://www.etsy.com/listing/470049131/magnifying-glasses-resin-lupa-10x-15x?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=magnifying glasses&ref=sr_gallery_39
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  21. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    Thought I replied to your question so I will try again. A few things had me doubting the coins authenticity. One thing is the mintmark does not look exactly like other examples I have seen even though it is in exactly the right position for a VAM 59. The mintmark does not look exactly alike on some examples I have seen so that does not concern me as much. I was also concerned because some areas of the fourth star are brighter than the rest of the star. Also, I wanted to make sure that the line in front of the eye is part of the die and not a scratch someone added on later to make the coin look like a VAM 59. I had the coin checked out and it looks like the line in front of the eye is something occurring from the die and not a scratch someone added to the coin so I think that pretty much confirms the coin is a VAM 59 since VAM World says the scratch in front of the eye is unique to VAM 59. As for the white areas on the star those are probably from how the coin was struck. Messydesk had also mentioned that the mint was constantly repairing the fourth star on the die. (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/microscope-or-jewelers-loup.304505/)
     
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