Mexico 2nd Republic Coins very scarce Slabbed

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Derek2200, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Active Member

    These coins so much lower pop than USA but so cheaper.

    Can you offer some reasons. We’re they melted or heavy circulation. They are so tough find nice slabbed mint state. How would you value / price say a 19th century 25 centavo piece in slabbed MS65 pop of just 2 none higher.
     
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  3. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    Look at past auctions.
     
  4. Coinsandmedals

    Coinsandmedals Well-Known Member

    I can’t speak specifically to the second republic coins; however, I can provide some reasons for why this may be the case for world coins more broadly.

    First: Third-party grading is mostly a driving factor for U.S. coins. In my experience, the majority of foreign collectors prefer their coins raw as opposed to in TPG plastic. This might change with NGC’s push into the international market, but that impact is likely some time out.

    Second: The collector base for some foreign coins can be pretty small. It seems logical that a smaller collector base is likely to submit fewer coins to TPGs. Also, depending on supply a smaller collector base would likely yield less demand.

    Third: It may not make sense to send the coins for grading. It could be that the value of the coin is too low, or perhaps having the coin graded does not add anything tangible to the value. Having a coin graded only adds value if the collector base is willing to pay the premium typically associated with a graded coin.

    These are likely some of the more substantial reasons, but there are a host of other possible explanations as well. I have found that it is important to take the “top pop” designation lightly when it comes to world coins. For instance, in my last NGC submission, I had three “top pops”, but when there have only been five or so submitted, it doesn’t mean as much. It’s kind of like graduating valedictorian when the entire graduating class is less than a dozen people.
     
    PaulTudor, Seattlite86 and medoraman like this.
  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    @Coinsandmedals has an excellent answer for you.

    One thing collectors don't "get" is how rarity is garbage. I own UNIQUE coins, coins never seen by world experts in a field. This doesn't mean they are worth much.

    DEMAND is what matters. If 20 of a coin exist, but only 3 collectors want them, there are way too many for demand.

    EVEN IF TPG pop reports meant something, (they don't), this is still meaningless without knowing demand. Demand of a coin explains why a very common coin like a 1916d dime or 1909s VDB in US coins, (yes, they are VERY common coins in the scheme of things), are worth $1000. You can find millions of other coins around the world with MUCH lower mintages worth pennies.

    Too many people look at Pop reports and take that data to other series. This is meaningless. Pop reports ONLY have bearing within a series, assuming demand is similar.
     
    PaulTudor likes this.
  6. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Active Member

    I don’t think that is something you would just price at MS60 CV. A MS65 19th century top pop just 1 or 2 known (Krause MS60 Cv $110) very easily a $2000 coin unless giving it away. I would push the burden of proof the other way / if only 2 slabbed where are the others? Worn slick or melted in my view and bourse room experience. Low pop of 2 means Owner has only one on bourse at show and dictates what it sells for. When I encounter tire kickers at shows, their low ball tactics I ask them if have one sell me at that - shuts them up every time. There are people who have paid thousands for toning or premiums on CAC stickered coins over $2000.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  7. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    But world coins, like ancients, can be different animals than US in regards to applicability of pop reports. I have some ancients better than any slabbed coin, what does the term top pop mean then? Plus, the all encompassing "condition rarity" mentality of US coins is far from universal.

    Yes, catalog values can be off. I have paid well over and well under CV. However, if the coin is not that rare and you want a mint because yours is hyped as being "top pop" I walk on by.
     
  8. Coinsandmedals

    Coinsandmedals Well-Known Member

    Pop reports are virtually useless when it comes to the bulk of world coins. Unless it is a high demand piece among mostly U.S. collectors, the pop reports are not applicable because almost no one cares. Unless there is a drastic change in how the bulk of non-U.S. collectors view TPGs, the fundamental meaning of pop reports will remain different between these two markets. Trying to equate patterns in the U.S. coin market to the world coin market is a great way to waste a ton of money and resources. Often the demand for TPG graded material just isn’t there, and, at times, having the coin in the plastic can make it more difficult to market to non-U.S. collectors.

    Also, neither of us suggested that a nice 65 example should sell for 60 CV money. Nice coins almost always command slightly higher prices. When it comes to world coins, however, the vast majority of them are not going to see a massive bump in price for “top pop” status. This is especially true if the coin isn’t particularly rare, and only a handful have been submitted for grading. To assume a 65 example should sell for $2000 when the CV for a 60 is $110 is excessively far fetched in my experience with world coins. Just out of curiosity, do you have a particular coin in mind as an example to illustrate your point?
     
  9. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Active Member

    I recently had a sale of a slabbed top pop world coin (Europe) for cost x 2.25. Single digit pop slabbed world coins I have the only one in the bourse room and possibly eBay. Compared to US coins which have been stagnant, decreasing bids in the sheet, steady slide down PCGs 3000my chances of getting retail keystone markup or more on low pop world strong. Have sold a number of them....

    I have some top Mexico 2nd republic top pop silver coins. One is in Pcgs 65 pop 2/0 and this is total graded. So I will get my price or just keep it. Won it not much over 60 money. They gave it away lol. Would prob move at 750 but wonder if wb giving away. This material beats US generic silver dollars with pop numbers in the tens of thousands. As far as their pop rarity they melted or worn slick if survive as in Mexico these coins circulated. I don’t buy these sitting in BU roll quantity somewhere.

    With bids sliding tough make money on US coins. It’s thrilling get top pop or single digit slabbed world coins for $150 or less, especially if setup at show Chances prob 95 pct its only one in room. If people won’t pay the money just keep them / fun way to collect. USA 1881-s generic MS65 dollar so common one could go to next table over get it at bid.

    No I don’t assume a 65 can get 2000 if 60 cv 110. In reality I believe the cv number too low, useless as basis for value. Especially if low single digit pop. But if your in it say for 150 ish the potential get 2x or 3x cost good. Even with that are you giving it away? It comes down to how bad the buyer wants it in my view and potential of the play could really gain big yardage.. A wealthy buyer sky the limit. 2000 chump change to what he could be spending on cars, car mods, boat, entertainment, sugar baby..especially if that money gone forever. The CAC premium for a MS66 generic Saint is over that!

    Bottom line: Based on my experience bourse room since 1990 if you have a really nice low pop coin your in drivers seat to get what you want, not some competitor, little know it all vest pocket trader or sludge tire kicker. However it still takes a buyer who wants it and will spend that. If I have a lot of room I have no problem discounting it within a sensible comfort zone if that’s what it takes move it quickly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020 at 1:43 PM
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