Greetings All, I found this at my local coin shop. Welcoming all comments...good or bad. Thanks... Specs: 39.4mm, 2.5mm, 27.1g, Security Edge Mint: Mexico City KM# 308 8 REALES 0.9030 Silver Obv: Continous legend with long smooth truncation Rev: Similar to KM#306 Note: Type III. 1822Mo JM — 175 500 950 2,250 Note: Variety with long, straight truncation
Are these specs from your example? Did you pay a fair price for it? The term counterfeit usually refers to a coin that tried to circulate when the genuine did. Otherwise some of us prefer to call such issues a forgery or even a "numismatic forgery" since the intention is to fool coin collectors. Yes this type is forged but I don't know enough about this type to do more than basic forgery detection.
Hi and thanks for your reply. Q:1. Yes, the specs are from my coin in hand. Q:2. Yes, I paid the fair price rate as mentioned above. Reply 1. Interesting...the use of "forgery" for coins. I always associated "forgery" with paintings, documents, signatures, paper money, etc...Then again, "numismatic forgery" makes sense. A term I'll probably start using. Thanks for the insight. Reply 2. I tend to use the term "contemporary counterfeit" for counterfeit coins made during an actual coin series minting and used to pass along as the real ones. I generally consider these of unique importance and at times of some significant value. What I was referring to as "counterfeit" are the "fakes" recently produced. Those make me nervous.
I wish I could be of more help but I am more versed in the "slightly" earlier colonial 8 reales issues. I am curious about the design of the edge for your coin. Colonial issues had a circle and rectangle motif and were struck on a parallel edging mill that left short segments of overlap -- a useful authentication diagnostic.
I don't think it's a fake. However, the head shape looks more like a KM-309 to me, rather than the KM-308. Those two numbers are very close in the way they look. When you were deciding on this coin, did you have any other examples, especially a KM-309, to compare to? I know a buyer, myself included, always wants the coin under consideration to be the more valuable of the varieties available. I'm certainly not an expert and I am only looking at photos and not the coin in hand. It's very easy to get something this close wrong.
What troubles me is the left wing tip looks a bit high. Most examples show the wing tip pointing at or near the bottom of the "N".
It looks like a nice example of the 2nd type of Iturbide crown (silver 8 reales). Nothing seems to be counterfeit about it offhand. Can you weigh it and get an edge picture? Note that it does seem to have a small rim bruise at 12:00 obv and a dent at 11:00 reverse near the "E" but is otherwise a pleasant specimen. I've two of these: a raw 1822 8 reales but the earlier "one footed chicken" type. This is shown below: bought privately from a "vest pocket coin dealer" some years ago.
For some reason none of my images display anymore? I'll try reposting. It shows up in draft & in edit.
I'm no expert, but the OP looks legit to me. I have two of these, with problems. I think they are both KM 310 with the shorter truncation. As for the edge, I seem to recall these were minted on Spanish Colonial machinery, there fore the circles and rectangles noted above should apply. That's what my two examples have. That holey one was a $15 eBay purchase. I think I could melt it for that!
I would assume that if the Iturbide issues used the circle and rectangle design, then they were made using the parallel edging mills at the Mexico City mint. To help with authentication, the parallel edging mill left two sections of overlap of the exactly the same length (usually 1/2 to 3 segments of the design) on directly opposite sides of the coin. If you want to feel more comfortable about the authenticity of your coins please check for this diagnostic. Many forgeries weren't made with a parallel edging mill so they can't replicate this appearance.
I found out a new way to post pictures. Rather than uploading them to a website I can upload them directly to CT. Here's my type I Iturbide: If I get to the bank I should be able to get an edge picture also.
Here's my one and only Iturbide, a proclamation medal in 8 reales format, but not really a coin. 26.3 g, 40 mm.
He did issue apparently a lot of proclamation pieces. The reverse accurately portrays his predicament in 1822 I believe. Here is my proclamation, bought from Karl Stephens. Finally I also have an 8 escudos of him.
