Metal flow lines or hairlines?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by delila1, Sep 19, 2021.

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  1. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Hair lines and scratches will go across the devices and lettering. Die polish marks and flow lines will stop at devices and letters.
     
    Dynoking, Sep 20, 2021
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    @GDJMSP why would these polish lines be on one coin and none of the others.
    Aren't patterns a small mintage?
    This is the description from Heritage. In their description it says die striations.

    1862 $10 Ten Dollar, Judd-297, Pollock-355, R.6, PR65 Brown PCGS. The obverse is of the regular eagle dies for 1862. The reverse is similar to the regular dies design but adds the motto GOD OUR TRUST on a scroll above the eagle. Low date, bulging bun Pollock subvariety. Struck in copper with a reeded edge and gilt. Only a dozen or so pieces are known of the Low Date variant. This piece has nicely mellowed with the obverse displaying just a trace of the underlying original red still. The reverse is interesting because of the heavy diagonal die striations and nearly uniform blue patina.

    What I am having a hard time with is a dozen or so pieces struck. Why would only one show the die polishing? Did they polish the dies for only one strike at the end or was it the first? The polishing lines just don't make much sense to me.
     
    Pickin and Grinin, Sep 20, 2021
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. 1865King

    1865King Well-Known Member

    It very possible they all have die polish lines. The mint was somewhat sloppy during this period. It's also possible these weren't all struck at the same time. Then if the die had some slight rust on it they may polish it off. Some pattern coins were just made to sell to collectors and could have been struck during different years. I know some patterns from 1865 were actually struck in the late 1860's to early 70's. So there is no guarantee they were struck as dated on the coin. I know of one quarter reverse die that was used to strike pattern coins of different years. 1859 to 1865. Same reverse but different obverses.
     
    1865King, Sep 20, 2021
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Die striations, like those seen here, are die polish lines.

    There could easily be more than just this one out there. And even with such low numbers there could be a couple of different possible reasons. When you're minting a pattern things are done slowly, 1 coin is minted at a time and then closely examined. And at any point during the striking if something is seen that they don't like then the die would be sent to be polished again. Or, it could be that was the 1st coin, and once it was struck they noticed the die polish lines and then polished the die again to remove the die polish lines.

    The point is the lines are there, that much is undeniable. And since that is exactly what die polish lines look like, it is beyond reasonable to say that they are indeed die polish lines.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 21, 2021
    #24 + Quote Reply
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  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's because all they are doing when using an off-metal is trying to see how the design strikes up. Simply put they are test strikes. And they were extremely common in Europe and the US.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 21, 2021
    #25 + Quote Reply
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  7. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I am fully aware of what die striations are. the lines definitely look like die polishing lines that we talk about daily here. It just wasn't making sense on why 1 out of 12 was showing this abnormality on what is supposed to be fresh dies.

    @delila1 pretty coin!
     
    Pickin and Grinin, Sep 22, 2021
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well, unless someone has seen all 12 of them, we don't know that only 1 does show it.

    I would further add that any time and every time that die polish lines can be seen on a coin it is a certainty that a mistake was made by a mint employee, and possibly more than one. I say that because we are never supposed to be able to see die polish lines on coins. And the only time we do see them on any coin it's because a shortcut was taken and the final steps, (the ones where the fine and ultra fine diamond dust that remove any and all visible lines) in the process of polishing the dies was skipped.

    And the likelihood of that happening with patterns and test strikes is somewhat high because they don't really care too much about quality when striking them - the primary purpose is merely to see how the design strikes up.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 22, 2021
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. Will6/25/22

    Will6/25/22 New Member

    How's it going I was wondering if you had any ideas about this error
     
    Will6/25/22, Sep 22, 2021
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    Well, the only error that I see is a ghost coin.

    Welcome to the forum, and you should start your own thread -- you'll get more reactions that way.

    Also, post the picture
     
    Treashunt, Sep 22, 2021
    #29 + Quote Reply
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