Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;+VGO.DVCKS, post: 7823378, member: 110504&quot;][USER=115171]@Hrefn[/USER], aside from being a truly remarkable example (...of an issue I&#039;d never heard of), this grosso of Rome is as distinctive as you observe.&nbsp; Having never seen one before, the points you raised about it sent me as near as I could readily get to the political context.&nbsp; Hyde (<u>Society and Politics in Medieval Italy</u>) notes the rise of communes (largely autonomous municipal governments) in &quot;north and central Italy&quot; over the earlier 12th century, emphasizing Venice and Rome as relatively late arrivals to this civic status, in the 1140s and 1150s.&nbsp; Regarding Rome, he continues:</p><p>&quot;In Rome, too, the older order with strong Byzantine influences lingered on, though here the most important factor in delaying the commune was the special position of the pope, who for many centuries had claimed sovereign power within the city and its district. Rome had a long history of risings against pope and [German] emperor, but [....] at last, in 1143, the Romans succeeded in forming a commune [...]. The core of the Roman commune was a rather small council of about fifty members, which was called the senate.&quot; (59.)</p><p>...Interpretively, where I&#039;m going with this is that, maybe as late as the 13th century, the decidedly secular legends, along with the motifs, were a means of emphasizing the Roman commune&#039;s independence on more mundane, political levels.&nbsp; These people might have been asserting their own perceived secular rights, in the absence of attendant, overtly theological fireworks. To quote the novelist Jasper Fforde, &quot;Religion isn&#039;t the cause of wars; it&#039;s the excuse.&quot;</p><p>Here&#039;s my better of two deniers /denaros, issued by the Roman Senate in imitation of the comital deniers of Provins, in Champagne. (Right, someone here put some real footwork into a post about the Champagne Fairs.) This anticipates a lot of the more easily legible legends of [USER=115171]@Hrefn[/USER]&#039;s grosso --whether by a century, or more like a half. And sorry for the pic.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1344418[/ATTACH]</p><p>(Cf. Roberts --only reference to hand-- 4733.&nbsp; Who reproduces a plate of Poey d&#039;Avant; 139. 01.&nbsp; Roberts&#039; attribution (/characterization) is &quot;Roman Senate, 12-13th C., S above.&quot;&nbsp; This is when Poey&#039;s plates are that much help.&nbsp; --Yes, this example corresponds pretty well to Poey&#039;s, suggesting a prototype of Henri I&#039;s second issue, c. 1160&#039;s-1181.)</p><p>Obv. Comb / &#039;peigne&#039; of the counts of Champagne; &quot;S&quot; [presumaby for &#039;SENATVS&#039;] above.&nbsp; From 8 o&#039;clock: &#039;IIOMA CAPVT MV&#039; (&#039;Roma Caput Mundi&#039;).</p><p>Rev. (From approx. 9 o&#039;clock: ) SENATVS. P. Q. R</p><p>...The obverse legend was appropriated elsewhere, notably for Aachen /Aix, in issues of Friedrich Barbarrossa, when he was busily wrapping himself in the Carolingian flag.&nbsp; ...Evoking more of the same: appropriating what could easily be interpreted as religious rhetoric for the purposes of a more mundane, political agenda.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1344428[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1344429[/ATTACH]</p><p>Right, on the reverse, you can see &quot;+ROMA [CAPVT] MVNDI,&quot; plain as the nose on your face.&nbsp; ...Or not.&nbsp; Especially with the quality of the pics, you might need to squint for a minute.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in