Medieval Monday!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by FitzNigel, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Many thanks for that, @seth77. ...I'm still going to look at Malloy's introductory stuff, just to see the parameters of the research and interpretation up to that point.
    ...But different mints? I can't think of a single western European coin with a mint name (never mind a local landmark) that doesn't refer specifically to that locality. --Granted, Jerusalem was a kingdom as well as a city, but for me, it's still a stretch. And when they weren't imitating Byzantines, Fatimids or Ayyubids, the Franks seem to have followed broad western European precedent fairly consistently.
    That general ethos obviously goes back to the beginning. My favorite example is Godfrey de Bouillon adopting the title 'Advocate of the Holy Sepulchre.' In northern France, the title of 'advocate,' specifically referring to the defense of a local religious institution, was frequently adopted by local lords, prior to referring to themselves as counts. (Cf. Dunbabin, France In the Making --cheat, and use the index. Also given reference in Koziol's Begging Pardon and Favor: Ritual and Political Order in Early Medieval France.)
     
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  3. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I strongly recommend R. Kool's work for the coinage of Jerusalem in its entirety. Regarding multiple mints for the same realm, it's actually rather common -- the denier tournois was possibly minted at multiple places starting with the reign of Louis IX, Tarascon-Avignon for the County of Provence and up until J. Baker published his articles (and then his book) on Greek coinages during the Frankokratia, Tzamalis followed by many others postulated 2 operations in the Duchy of Athens and 2 in the Principality of Achaea. As for the Latin Kingdom proper, the AMALRICVS coinage continued in its smaller module after the loss of Jerusalem and up to around 1220/30, probably from Tyre and/or Acre. The Damietta coinage of Jean de Brienne seems to have been moved from Damietta proper to Acre after 1221.
     
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  4. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the elucidation, @seth77! And, Yep, regarding Jean de Brienne's Damietta coinage, I knew that, once upon a time. You've got me keen to find out just how much of Kool's stuff is on academia.edu. Are there other sites you can recommend?
     
  5. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I think his PhD thesis on coin circulation in the Latin Kingdom is available online and/or it was published by IAA or INS. When I get more time I will look it up and write a PM regarding.
     
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  6. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Here's a recent one, from Monnaies d'Antan. Odo /Eudes I, Duke of Burgundy 1079-1101/2. Denier of Dijon, 2nd type. (Caveat: as scarce (and early in the ducal series) as these are, you get to be happy with this kind of condition.)
    BURGUNDY, BOURGOGNE, EARLIEST, EUDES ODO I, 1079-1102, DENIER.jpg
    Obv. Cross fichee, three annulets in field. (From 6 o'clock: ) [+]O[DO] DVX.
    Rev. +DIV[ON] CASTRI. Dumas-Dubourg, Bourgogne 2.2 (as cited by Crinon in Alde Numismatique catalogue, 16-17 June 2011).
    This is distinctive for the reverse legend, with the mint signature describing Dijon as a castle. On my next earliest example, of Odo II (1143-1162 --along with the intervening reign, Hugues II), Dijon gets the typical Medieval Latin genitive form for cities, 'DIVIONENSIS.'
    COINS, BOURGOGNE, ODO 2, obv..jpg COINS, BOURGOGNE, ODO 2, rev.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
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  7. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    ...Okay, I give up. What gives with the (expletive of choice) formatting? Knock, Knock....
    (Edit: ) Thanks, whoever fixed this in time for one more edit!!! You guys are good.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  8. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Is Eudes I just a tad too coppery? I'm asking because take a look at this Hugo II:

    burgundy.jpg
    It does look a bit too brassy, doesn't it?
     
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  9. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    However anecdotally, the ones of Hugues III (1162-1192) are the same kind of composition. Here's one.
    COINS, FRANCE, BOURGOGNE, HUGH HUGUES III, 1162-1193 .jpg
    Obv. Tops of two croziers /demi-anniles; pellet above, annulet below.
    +VGO DVX BURG: DIE [long ‘O].
    Rev. Cross. +DIVIONENSIS [round 'O;' first 'S' retrograde, second 'S' not] (Dijon).
    Dumas-Dubourg 6-2-3, Roberts 4534 (attr. to Hugues V, 1305-1315).

    Here's an excerpt from a paper that will likely be unfinished when I'm not.
    Crinon dates the coinage from Hugues's majority in 1165 to the end of the ducal reign in 1192, punctuated by a significant reduction in weight, which he ascribes to Hugues's grant of minting rights for this issue to the local Cluniac abbey of St.-Benigne in 1177 (ibid.). Bouchard notes that, with the ascendancy of the Cistercian monastic order (conspicuously under the influence of its leading proponent, Bernard of Clairvaux), "it seems that in the twelfth century the dukes, in making gifts with the announced intention of saving their souls, considered the Cistercian houses the most likely to provide their salvation, and thus they let Cluny and St.-Benigne, which family members had patronized in the eleventh [and early in the following] century, fall into relative neglect" (Bouchard pp. (150-) 152). In this context, it seems likely that the Cluniac order's minting rights in Dijon, not least in conjunction with subsequent devaluation of the coinage, were intended as the lucrative compensation they undoubtedly were.

    Hugues was the son and heir of Eudes II, and father of Eudes III. Bouchard notes that Hugues went to the Levant on crusade twice, first "between major Crusades" in 1171, then on the Third Crusade, dying at Acre in 1192. On his death, Eudes III "confirmed all the rights and possessions of [the monastery of] St.-Benigne of Dijon for his father's soul. A friendship between a nobleman and the monks of a particular house might be built up slowly (and, from the monks' point of view, painfully), but, once established, those monks were to the noble his monks, men he could count on to pray for his soul, monks he would turn to though half a world away." (Bouchard pp. 198, 199).

    This juxtaposition of various strands of piety, local, foreign and ultimately filial, is poignant enough, especially on the level of the immediate participants. However, it simultaneously belies the fact that the very expense of crusading, ostensibly among the greatest acts of Christian devotion available to the lay aristocracy, easily could lead to less than exemplary behavior nearer home. As Luchaire observes, the convergence of aristocratic social convention with expanding mercantile forces was only brought into highest relief by the crusades, for which “money was [only most immediately] necessary” (p. 326). Cazel expands on the point: “few crusaders had sufficient cash income both to pay their obligations at home and to support themselves decently on a crusade. [….] From the First Crusade to the last the alienation of property by crusaders reveals the failure of booty, current income, and savings to support their expeditions” (pp. 117, 119).

    What was true of crusading also held for the wider aristocratic ethos. Baldwin observes that, as of of the later 12th and earlier 13th centuries, the milieu was dominated by a powerful tradition of “largesse, or generosity,” reaching back to a smokily remote, idealized Carolingian past. “Wealth was distributed ostentatiously, without restraint” (p. 98). Luchaire characterizes this in terms of a “theory of obligatory prodigality, especially toward poor knights” (p. 336). In reference to Baudouin V of Hainaut, he further notes that this inhabited a continuum with the more mundane pirsuit of domestic war: “[t]he military resources of [the nobility’s] own fiefs were not sufficient for them to lead armies into campaigns so often as they did. They had recourse to mercenaries[…].” Baudouin paid his exhorbitantly, supplemented by “presents of horses, clothing, and cash” (pp. 335, 336). In effect, a ‘perfect storm’ had occurred, between the gradual but ever more insistent monetization of the French economy, and a feudal culture which, while far from static (in fact, ever more elaborate, both in practice and commensurate expense), continued, unsustainably, to rely on agrarian economic foundations. This had already placed much of the feudal nobility on a losing trajectory: “Unless one were a Philip Augustus or a Henry [II], able to operate on a large scale and to make vast conquests, one got nothing out of it. A [seignieurial] budget of this time is ordinarily a budget with a deficit” (p. 325; cf.pp. 335-6).

    Hugues’ own career places this principle in especially high relief, as his ongoing fiscal problems were accompanied by a remarkable phase of territorial expansion --largely through marriage-- and administrative consolidation within his duchy (Dunbabin p. 306). As Luchaire continues, repeated adventures overseas contributed profoundly to his “always [being] at the end of his resources.” His response, especially in light of his father’s remarkably farsighted policy toward the Champagne fairs, betrays the depth of his desperation. Luchaire goes on to observe that Hugues “was really a robber on the the great highways; he plundered the French and Flemish merchants who crossed his lands.” (P. 251. See the entry for Renaud de Dammartin for a specific instance of the practice.) It would remain for his grandson, Hugues IV, to fully adapt to the changed economic landscape.

    Baldwin, John W. Aristocratic Life in Medieval France: The Romances of Jean Renart and Gerbert de Montreuil, 1190-1230. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins UP, 2000.
    Bouchard, Constance Brittain. Sword, Miter, and Cloister: Nobility and the Church in Burgundy, 980-1198. Ithaca: Cornell UP,1987.
    Cazel, Fred A., Jr. “Financing the Crusades.” A History of the Crusades. Volume Six: The Impact of the Crusades on Europe. Ed. Harry W. Hazard and Norman P. Zacour. Madison, Wisconsin: U of Wisconsin P, 1989.
    Dunbabin, Jean. France in the Making: 843-1180. 1st ed. Oxford UP, 1985.
    Luchaire, Achille. Social France at the Time of Philippe Augustus. Trans. Edward Benjamin Krehbiel. 1909 (/trans.1912). New York: Harper, 1967.)

    (End of excerpt.)
    Since all of this obviously concerns a later ducal reign, it's not going to provide any 'smoking gun' for the composition of the earlier ones. However, the issues of Hugues IV (1218-1272) are back to the level of silvering familiar from Eudes II. Regarding that interval, under Hugues IV, the financial fortunes of the duchy saw a considerable uptick, due in part to the ongoing, close political and economic ties to the County of Champgne, with its famous(ly lucrative) fairs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  10. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    ...And, Yep, I like your Hugues II!!! Congratulations.
    (Edit: ) And I couldn't begin to tell you about the alternation from copper to brass as the underlying base metal. in light of how this still represents a substantve, collective improvement on the tin that was used elsewhere (along the lines of the worst examples of Gallienus, for one obvious instance), the mint might be excused for improvising, so long as some form of AE was used.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  11. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I am going to need to really take my time to ponder on your really packed excerpt but something is already ringing some bells: Hugo III was in Outremer probably at the same time Etienne I de Sancerre was there answering the call of Amalric's Haute Cour for the would-be (eventually failed) marriage to Sibylla. Etienne follows most of the same pattern in largesse and donative, especially towards 'the Church' while his coinage, spread ca. 1155-1190 is of sound quality billon. And since the older dukes who minted have similar coppery/brassy coinage, perhaps there was more there than spending on a continuous deficit that befell Burgundy during the 12th century. Perhaps the composition of the billon might also be connected to the scarcity of Eudes I - Hugo II material in some way.

    My notes on the denier of Hugo were along the less-inspired 'contemporary counterfeit' although the style, the lettering and the weight (1.11g) and the diameter, not to mention the concrete literacy of the legend indicate a likely official operation.
     
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  12. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist

    I once had a Hugh of Dijon, but I believe I gifted it to someone. So while I can’t share that, I’ll at least share a French Feudal coin:

    Med-05a-FAnj-1109-Fulk V-D-375.jpg French Feudal - Anjou
    Fulk V or Geoffrey V, r. 1109-1129 or 1129-1151
    AR Denier, 18.92 mm x 0.9 grams
    Obv.: +FVLCO COMES starting at 3hr. cross pattée, omega in quadrant 3, alpha in quadrant 4
    Rev.: + VRBS AIDCCSV. Around Fulk’s monogram
    Ref.: Duplessy 375, Roberts 4114
     
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  13. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Nice one, @FitzNigel! I have a couple, neither as good as this. ...For silvering, for one ...back, for a quick minute, to the weeds @seth77 and I got into about Burgundy.
     
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  14. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @seth77, I think you nailed the attribution of your Hugues II. It's easy to imagine that the whole series was billon from the onset ...with typical wear to the silvering.
    I like how the module(s) of the petit deniers of of Flanders and elsewhere in the neighborhood, across Picardy and the Low Countries, were a direct response to how ubiquitous billon was in French issues, both feudal and royal. Wish you, in particular, could stop me in time, but in those cases, the collective solution was to issue coins of reasonably fine silver, but on a dramatically reduced module.
    Another factor reinforcing your Hugues II being an official issue is the fine, contemporaneous lettering style, complementing the literacy of the legends, as you noted. ...Yes, I've always paid attention to lettering styles of the period, in the feudal series and elsewhere. --Never to the level of attention that you've invested in the subject, to the extent of trying to pin down individual die sinkers. But, especially in comparison to lettering in other media (especially calligraphy and sculpture in metal and stone), it's fun to see the evolution, specifically in coins, from neo- Carolingian /Romanesque to early and High Gothic. ...Including the readily observable lag in Gothic lettering, while the medium catches up with the more technologically forgiving ones.
    This is why I love the legends of Henry III Long Cross pennies. They even include the kind of elision you see in the contemporary manuscripts of Matthew Paris.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
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  15. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Its Medieval times again:D

    Ayyubid Caliphate (Egypt/Syria)
    AV Dinar AH 627 6.62 g. 21.5mm. 1h
    al-Qahira Mint
    Al-Kamil Muhammad I AH 615-35 (1218-38)
    ex: Morton & Eden Auction 64 (my first Ayyubid coin)
    ayyubid-al-kamil-i-615-635h-dinar-790503.jpg
     
  16. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Just bought this, as a "prototype" (hardly exact) of a particularly interesting c. 10th-c. immobilization I'd fallen into earlier. There were several options, with lots of variation in the orientation of the legends; this one was the nearest match to the immobilization.
    CAROLINGIAN, PALAIS ISSUE OF CHARLES II, LE CHAUVE, THE BALD.jpg
    Charles the Bald, king of the West Franks 840-877; Emperor 875-877. Denier of the Palace (apparently wherever the king was staying at the time).
    Rev. (from 3 o'clock: ) +PAL.ATINA MONE
    Obv. 'KAROLVS' monogram; (from 6 o'clock: ) +CRTIA D-I REX ('Gratia Dei Rex').
     
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  17. Dafydd

    Dafydd Well-Known Member

    upload_2022-1-24_19-7-10.png
    upload_2022-1-24_19-7-37.png
    John Short cross penny type 5c Walter on Lund

    [​IMG]

    I bought the coin in December and read Dan Jones book this past weekend which was a real pleasure as so different from some of the tomes I read as it is profusely illustrated. It focuses on aspects of everyday court and medieval life that you don't normally consider such as clothing and nutrition. For instance, the calculated daily calory intake for a medieval Surf was only 1400 to 1600 calories considered unsustainable these days. 90 % of their diet was vegetable and some of the statistics around the King descending on a Baron with his entourage were staggering such as the requirement for 30,000 chickens at Christmas time! It brought the coin to life for me and a recommended read, more coffee table than academic but great fun.
     
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  18. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    Just for fun,

    OM: Qur'an 9:33 through kollihi ("Muhammad is the apostle of Allah who sent him with guidance and a true religion, that he might proclaim it above all religion").

    OC: (from 2nd line) al malik al-Kamil / Abu'l-Ma'ali Muhammad / ibn Abi Bakr bin / (top) Ayyub ("the king al-Kamil Abu'l-Ma'ali Muhammad son of Abu Bakr son of Ayyub").

    RM: bism Allah al-rahman al-rahim duriba hadha al-dinar bi'l-Qahirah sanat seb' wa 'ashrin wa sitt' mi'at ("in the name of Allah the Compassionate the Merciful was struck this dinar of al-Qahirah in the year seven and twenty and six hundred").

    RC: al-imam / al-Mansur Abu / Ja'far al-Mustansir / billah amir al-mu'minin ("the imam al-Mansur Abu Ja'far al-Mustansir billah, commander of the faithful") ['Abbasid caliph].

    Balog 374. Very nice example!
     
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  19. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Nice example, @Dafydd. I'm heading to Amazon to scope out this book!
     
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  20. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I will use that info for my data label/ sounds way better then having obv./ rev./ "Arabic Script":)
    John
     
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  21. Dafydd

    Dafydd Well-Known Member

    It’s a interesting book @panzerman. You won’t find any any Surf’s in it though, that was a typo, the only Surf in England is to be found in the Sea! There are plenty of Serf’s though
     
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