Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Medieval Cut Pennies
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Orfew, post: 3565754, member: 74968"]That is a very interesting use of "Ye". There is an orthographic error here that has been reproduced for hundreds of years. The "Y" in "Ye" is not actually a "Y" at all. Instead the letter should have been a thorn, which looks a bit like a "Y" but has a closed loop on the stem. The letter thorn stands in for the "th" sound. </p><p><br /></p><p>Wikipedia:</p><p>"In Old English, <i>ð</i> (called <i><i>ðæt</i></i> by the Anglo-Saxons<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-3" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-3" rel="nofollow">[3]</a>) was used interchangeably with <i><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)" rel="nofollow">þ</a></i> to represent the Old English <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_consonant" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_consonant" rel="nofollow">dental</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricative" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricative" rel="nofollow">fricative</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme" rel="nofollow">phoneme</a> /<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative" rel="nofollow">θ</a>/, which exists in modern <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology" rel="nofollow">English phonology</a> as the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_fricative" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_fricative" rel="nofollow">voiced</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative" rel="nofollow">voiceless</a> dental fricatives now spelled "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th_(digraph)" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th_(digraph)" rel="nofollow">th</a>".</p><p><br /></p><p>Unlike the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic" rel="nofollow">runic</a> letter <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9E" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9E" rel="nofollow">þ</a>, ð is a modified <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_cursive" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_cursive" rel="nofollow">Roman</a> letter. ð was not found in the earliest records of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English" rel="nofollow">Old English</a>. A study of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercia" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercia" rel="nofollow">Mercian</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_charters" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_charters" rel="nofollow">royal diplomas</a> found that ð (along with <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90" rel="nofollow">đ</a>) began to emerge in the early 8th century, with ð becoming strongly preferred by the 780s.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-4" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-4" rel="nofollow">[4]</a> Another source indicates that the letter is "derived from Irish writing".<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-5" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-5" rel="nofollow">[5]</a>"</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>To simplify, thorn is the voiceless form and eth is the voiced form. For example, place a finger on your throat near the vocal cords. Say "thin", you should notice that your vocal cords do not vibrate-the th is voiceless. Now say "then". You should notice that the vocal cords vibrate.</p><p><br /></p><p>We still use both voiced and voiceless forms of "th" but we no longer have separate characters for them.</p><p><br /></p><p>So whenever you see a sign that says "Ye old tea shoppe", you will now know that the "y" is supposed to be a thorn and that is supposed to be a voiceless "th" sound.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Orfew, post: 3565754, member: 74968"]That is a very interesting use of "Ye". There is an orthographic error here that has been reproduced for hundreds of years. The "Y" in "Ye" is not actually a "Y" at all. Instead the letter should have been a thorn, which looks a bit like a "Y" but has a closed loop on the stem. The letter thorn stands in for the "th" sound. Wikipedia: "In Old English, [I]ð[/I] (called [I][I]ðæt[/I][/I] by the Anglo-Saxons[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-3'][3][/URL]) was used interchangeably with [I][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)']þ[/URL][/I] to represent the Old English [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_consonant']dental[/URL] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricative']fricative[/URL] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme']phoneme[/URL] /[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative']θ[/URL]/, which exists in modern [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology']English phonology[/URL] as the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_fricative']voiced[/URL] and [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative']voiceless[/URL] dental fricatives now spelled "[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th_(digraph)']th[/URL]". Unlike the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic']runic[/URL] letter [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9E']þ[/URL], ð is a modified [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_cursive']Roman[/URL] letter. ð was not found in the earliest records of [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English']Old English[/URL]. A study of [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercia']Mercian[/URL] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_charters']royal diplomas[/URL] found that ð (along with [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90']đ[/URL]) began to emerge in the early 8th century, with ð becoming strongly preferred by the 780s.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-4'][4][/URL] Another source indicates that the letter is "derived from Irish writing".[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth#cite_note-5'][5][/URL]" To simplify, thorn is the voiceless form and eth is the voiced form. For example, place a finger on your throat near the vocal cords. Say "thin", you should notice that your vocal cords do not vibrate-the th is voiceless. Now say "then". You should notice that the vocal cords vibrate. We still use both voiced and voiceless forms of "th" but we no longer have separate characters for them. So whenever you see a sign that says "Ye old tea shoppe", you will now know that the "y" is supposed to be a thorn and that is supposed to be a voiceless "th" sound.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Medieval Cut Pennies
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...
