Matt's Counterfiet Gold Coin Thread

Very interesting thread. I hope you don't mind if I interject with a coin of my own that I purchased long ago and have been "suspicious" about for a while. I purchased the "Bill Fivaz United States Gold Counterfeit Detection Guide" several months ago, and have been learning many things since then.

Now looking at the coin in question, the first thing that immediately draws your attention is the raised lines on liberty's neck. They are quite obvious. I for sure thought they were signs of a counterfeit coin, but according to the Fivaz guide for this particular date on page 20 it states "The severe raised lines by Liberty's ear and jaw are not counterfeit diagnostics for this coin; genuine specimins may exhibit this characteristic"...it then shows a photo of the same characteristics that my coin exhibits. Soooo, that kind of leaves me wondering.

As far as tooling marks or raised lines, there is one blem on the reverse that I have highlighted. This coin has many scratches that appear to be post mint, and the two depressions beneath the portrait appear post mint as well since there is luster in the surrounding fields and none within the depression. I may be wrong though. To be honest, there is enough suspicious stuff going on with this coin to leave me thinking it is likely a fake(so I wont be bummed if I'm told it is), but I haven't found something that absolutely nails the coffin shut. Hopefully some of you have the Fivaz guide so you can see the illustrations and compare. Opinions? Should I try to get some better photos?

 

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Great post here Matt!! I find it extremely revealing that a finding of 90% pure was the end result. Was your refiner able to determine whether it was 22k gold or 9k gold or was it not taken in that direction?

Thanks a million for posting this highly educational thought provoking thread!! good for you!! :thumb:

 

I just read through this entire thread. I can honestly say that I know so little about gold all but two or three of these would have fooled me.

Now, a question about these coins- were they made to fool numismatists or were they made to circulate with real gold issues back in the day...IE, contemporary counterfits. Is it even possible to tell?

One thing I am sure of, if I ever do buy gold, I will consult some experts before hand, or even resort to a graded coin (of which I am not a fan).

 

What a great thread , Doug I would of guessed fake , I never saw such lines on a silver coin . But I think if they show up on gold coins they probably show up on silver , guess it's time to buy some gold counterfeit books and start saving for a trip to Colorado
rzage

 

Yeah, what is interesting though in the Fivaz book is the existence of those lines on genuine coins is specific to 1853 gold dollars....which kind of implys that they might be a counterfeit diagnostic on a different date. Who knows, but one thing I do know is that: I GOT A GOOD NEWS FROM DOUG ON ONE OF MY COINS!! WOOHOO!!:hail::hail: This will be a moment to remember Oh, and obviously Bill Fivaz agrees with him. I won't argue it anymore, and accept the fact that I got a lucky break on a purchase that could have been for a counterfeit.

 

Yes they were made to fool collectors. Often times they are even made from the proper alloy, weight, diameter, and size.

 

Thanks guys, that is kind of what I suspected but I wanted an opinion more educated then mine!

 

I have been looking for a 1909 $10 gold Indian, and a 1926 $10 Gold Indian. I found both on eBay this weekend, and sure enough, the 1909 had the tooling marks around the STATES that I heard about here, so I steered clear of it. I used to think that seller had some pretty nice stuff, but now I wonder.
A different seller that had the 1926 just now sold. I was going to bid near the end when it was near $750. but within about 5 minutes, it went up to over $1400, and I decided that was too steep to buy it unslabbed off eBay. It sure was a nice one though. Guess I'll keep looking.
Chuck

 

Thanks Doug. I appreciate that. The more I thought about it, the less confidence I had in some of the sellers, even though I have bought and sold from them for years. After I saw that 1909S that she was selling with the tooling marks on it I backed way up. I need the 1909S and the 1926 to complete my grandmothers collection, but I think I'll probably have my local dealer look for me when he goes to the shows, unless there is somebody on CT that might have them.
Thanks again, it's good to have people here looking out for your back!
Chuck