Matte Lincoln Cent Proofs 09-16

I had typos in the other post. Let me try that one again.


LDhair your 1916 MPL exhibits the die gouge in the upper loop of the 9 in the date. This is indicative of Obverse Die #2. The other posted Obverse #2 die diagnostics are die scratches which will likely wear easily if the coin has been worn at all.... and apparently those die scratches don't occur on Early Die States (EDS)

Documented Obverse #2 Date Diagnostic



Coincidence? I should maybe reshoot with light from a different angle.





Here is another 1916 with a similar gouge in the upper loop of the 9 - just another coincidence?



So let me go and try to find the scratches on Obverse #2 - I lit this coin directly from the left side it sure looks like remnants of the die scratches but then there is that pesky lamination thing going on. What a perfect coin to be a reject after being struck! But really I guess it is too worn to really tell.

Documented Obverse #2 scratches:







Now, this is where it gets complicated, going back to the first coin I posted, since the date thing and lack of scratches are inconclusive. I noticed that the diagnostics in the word GOD look like a perfect match to Obverse #1 - what? this has to be just another coincidence?


Documented Diagnostic for Obverse #1 - Broken right side of the O in GOD



Look at the funny shape of the lettering, it sure looks like a perfect match to me.




I do understand that a proof is supposed to be from a specially prepared planchet, but in the case of the Matte proof, how was the planchet prepared anyhow?

Summarizing..... The black and white image is not clear enough to really see the gouge in the 9 of in to be able to match it up to a coin in hand. SO... I ask, what do the authenticators/graders at the TPG's use? They certainly don't have MPL from every die state combination at their finger tips to compare to. What? They use Coinfacts and Tru-View, these B&W images?

The worn nature of the coins I posted makes die scratch identification near impossible. So coins in theory, coins that have been struck with proof dies that entered circulation will not be authenticated? What if it was the coiners intent to create a proof, but it had sloppy rims like a business strike? Are there any Proofs grade AU? Why not? I see posts all the time of people finding modern proofs in circulation. A proof is a proof.

Anyways, on the one coin, the word GOD is a match, so it seems to me. But is is a business strike cause it doesn't have square polished rims............... then either Proof dies were used on coins for business strikes, or could it be that the diagnostics are inaccurate for determining proofs?

Everything I have read so far paints scenarios where any thing is possible. I guess, my questions are again; Why when someone pursues proving or disproving something about these proofs, does the discussion end? Why d

One thing that is apparent to me is that with hi resolution imaging widely available, issues about different dies and identification of such should be easy to put to bed...... and yet.... many coins worth millions are floating around and something simple like lasering these coins is instead left to guys with little loupes and crappy B&W photos trying to figure out if their coin is worth a $100 or $10,000.00! amazing....

Where is Jesse Ventura, its a conspiracy , I tell ya!

 

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Done.

 

I know about the upload options. you can go to this thread to see that I know. Let me know which size you could live with?

http://www.cointalk.com/showthread.php?t=167909&p=1151666#post1151666


I dunno, I just like seeing into the nooks and crannies. The pics you are posting from Todd are good pics I just wish they were larger. I can't see any of the diagnostics...

BTW your shot of the '13 captures luster on that coin where I feel Todd's image is flat. It's a personal pet peeve of mine that high grade coins should show a balance of the attributes that make it high grade. It appears to me that your lighting type may not be white balance properly. The resolution looks to be about the same. I bet if you worked on light placement/type along with white balancing to better duplicate the color of the coin in hand to match your monitor, you will be happy.

Can you view the coin on your monitor through the camera and control the shutter with your mouse? Tethering? It will shorten the learning curve dramatically because you can adjust stuff until the coin looks right and then take the pic.


lol... I just noticed if you and Mike get together you guys would have a full set sans the VDB?

 

I love that 1914 MPL posted above. Man I wish these things didn't cost thousands.