Masterpieces of Ancient coinage.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by BenSi, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    This is one of the finer-style profile portraits from High Medieval Europe. ...Hope that, as such, it manages to slide home, even if in a bigger cloud of dust than usual.
    COINS, PROVENCE, ALPHONSE II, DENIER3, OBV..jpg
    COINS, PROVENCE, ALPHONSE II, DENIER3, REV..jpg
    County of Provence. Denier /'royal coronat,' Marseilles, c. 1186-c. 1243.
    '+REX .ARA.GONE;' 'PO / VI /NC / IA.'
    Crusafont v. IV, 174 (attr. Jaume I of Aragon); Duplessy 1611 (Anonymous). Cf. Boudeau 807, attributing it to Alfonso II 'of Aragon', Count of Provence 1196-1209, immobilized up to the new coinage of Count Raymond Berenger V, from 1243. (Conspicuously citing hoard evidence, albeit as of the early 20th century.) Crusafont, meanwhile, distinguishes this issue from earlier ones, which he dates to Pere I, King of Aragon 1196-1213, on the basis of substantive stylistic, ...ahem, improvement.
    ...The latter attribution is problematic, merely because Alfonso II of Provence was Pere I of Aragon's brother (and father of Raymond Berenger V), and the two ruled simultaneously, respectively in the County of Provence and the Kingdom of Aragon. Intuitively, the longer interval of immobilization, advocated by Boudeau and Duplessy, seems to make more prima facie sense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  3. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I try to avoid using superlatives such as masterpiece. It is both subjective and definitive, something, being a relativist, kind of goes against my grain.

    Now, having said that, there are certainly coins of merit, of great merit even. There are certain coins that exude a quality of art, in all of its manifest forms, that make them stand out.

    Here are four from my collection. I could list more, but I wanted to make a distillation using these examples.

    1) Syracuse

    What is it about Syracuse? While it is a major city/state in ancient times, it produced coinage in all metals noted for its beauty in design, and in most cases, execution, as exemplified by my tetradrachm of Agathokles. Other cities in Sicily beautiful coinage as well, while other Greek cities stuck to rather monotonous coinage, such as Athens, Thebes and Corinth, primarily for economic reasons, no doubt.

    D-Camera Syracuse Tetradrachm, Agathokles 5-15-20.jpg

    2) Paeonia

    During the late 4th century BC, Paeonia, under Audoleon, produced tetradrachms depicting Athena in a three-quarter pose. The skill needed to successfully produce a die of this nature is considerable. This type of portrait is much more difficult to create than a simple profile portrait. While this coin is not in the same league as the magnificent facing portrait coins of Syracuse and Rhodes, it is nonetheless quite remarkable, especially the obverse. This example from my collection (sorry for the blurry obverse) is nicely engraved, with a pointed nose (not a flat "boxer" nose), good orientation of the eyes and good centering. The reverse is also well centered and of good artistic quality.
    D-Camera Paionia, tetradrachm, Audoleon, 315-286 BC, SNG ANS 1054var 11.98g 2-6-21.jpg

    3) The coinage of Alexander III

    Without a doubt, in my mind, the vast coinage produced by Alexander III and his successors, including the posthumous coinage, has some of the best engraving, setting the stage for the beautiful Hellenistic periood coinage to follow. The quality of the workmanship of Alexander's coinage varies considerably. This is my tetradrachm from Cilicia, possibly Side, either a late lifetime or early posthumous coin.

    D-Camera Alexander III tetradrachm, Susa Mint, life time or early posthumous, 17.2 g, 11-2-20.jpg

    4) The Eastern Celts

    The quality of this coinage varies widely, both in the quality (or lack thereof) of the dies, the quality of the metal, and the quality of the strike. This is my Doppelkopf type, with the Janiform head of Zeus on the obverse. These coins do come up for sale or in auctions from time to time, but they do very in the quality of dies, as well as strike. This coin as a pleasing style to it, with one side of Zeus seeming to peer, somewhat ruefully, back at his other face, perhaps his better side? The reverse, while off center, has the quintessential Celtic horse and a very abstract rider.

    D-Camera Eastern Celts, tetradrachm, Doppelkopf Type,, 3rd century BC Lanz 540, 12.73g  2-6-21.jpg

    So, are these coins masterpieces? That is for the viewer to decide. I love each coin for what it is, and what it has to offer and say about its time in history.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  4. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @robinjojo, I need to second your caveats about assigning esthetic norms according to irreducibly subjective, as such inexorably specious criteria. --Memorably in reference to what @Only a Poor Old Man has gone into in considerable depth with, recently and a little less so.
    Except, in reference to your central European Celtic (...polysyllabic expletive of choice), to quote the old BBC comedy, Red Dwarf, "Kicking Bottom, or What?")
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  5. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Actually, when I was describing the Celtic coin, I this in mind:

    Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe.jpg
     
  6. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @robinjojo, who is that?
    I'm getting that it's somebody posing with his Madame Tussaud persona, or something vaguely along those lines. But how wrong am I in thinking this is Paul McCartney... during some ill-advisedly post-Bowie /post-Punk phase of his career ...In other words, while I wasn't paying attention?
     
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  7. Di Nomos

    Di Nomos Well-Known Member

    Lol, you're close - it's Zaphod Beeblebrox.

    robinjojo can expand on who Zaphod is.
     
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  8. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    As I recall, Zaphod Beedlebrox is a rather conceded, off-the-wall, argumentative (with himself) chap from around Betelgeuse who would not be my first choice for taking out to lunch.

    Here's a classic scene:



    And everything you might want to know....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaphod_Beeblebrox
     
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  9. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I do not think those guys would have lasted in the days of the Celts/ back then you needed hardcore warriors to fight against the well trained Roman legions.:D
     
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  10. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    My goodness @Only a Poor Old Man that is an unexpected (but welcome) surprise for me. Here is why:
    28958944-E3FC-457C-A5C0-42565BB8539C.jpeg

    https://www.mfa.org/collections/publications/lethal-elegance
     
  11. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    My goodness @Only a Poor Old Man that is an unexpected (but welcome) surprise for me. Here is why:
    View attachment 1248851

    Spectacular book from Boston Museum of Fine Art:

    https://www.mfa.org/collections/publications/lethal-elegance
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  12. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    I do love looking in The Lanes Armoury for their militaria especially Samurai swords.
    I always prefer utilitarian over artistry so a 700 year old blade that has seen action always wins out over hamon and sword guards of artistic excellence to me.
    It's a bit like modern US coins in plastic against crusty ancient to me.
     
  13. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I bought a Samurai Sword at a antique store here in Kingston. The thing is sharp as a razor. I remember having an accident with it, had a deep cut near my thumb....ouch. Watching, "Forged in Fire" I could decapitate their human dummy with one swing.
     
  14. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

     
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  15. Only a Poor Old Man

    Only a Poor Old Man Well-Known Member

    Happy to see a fellow nihonto fan. It was my main hobby before I got into coins. I cannot really financially sustain both hobbies simultaneously and after all I need to hold and examine a sword before I buy it, I wouldn't buy one online. So at the moment it is all about coins!

    Here is a nasty picture I just took of my two wakizashis. Typical shakudo fittings on one and copper on the other. Both blades are mumei.

    waki.jpg

    I will definitely check out the book you suggested. Here is one of mine with some jaw-dropping fittings. It is hard to get and a bit pricey, but I really loved it.

    bkts.jpg

    Ah, the eternal debate, koshirae vs blade. I like both :happy:
     
  16. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Please excuse the double-post response above. I was an avid collector and researcher when I lived in Japan some sixty years ago. The swords I depict on the stand are for decoration of my writing desk - something nice to look at as I render my calligraphy. On top: Satsuma shin-Shinto wakazashi in the same koshirae as that on the cover of the MFA Earle book. Below: signed kanekado (Mino province, 1605) blade in storage scabbard (shirasaya).
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  17. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    A great thread with some impressive coins from all, @BenSi, including the OP coin. This coin seems a good one to include with the OP coin (even if not a perfect masterpiece):
    Artuquids of Mardin Masterpiece.jpg
    Islamic, Anatolia & al-Jazira (Post-Seljuk), Artuqids (Mardin), Najm al-Din Alpi, AH 547-572 / AD 1152-1176, Æ Dirham (35mm, 15.36g, 1h), Unnamed mint (Mardin[?]), undated
    Obv: Diademed and draped male busts facing; Najm al-Din above and Malik Diyarbkr below; Artuqid tamgha at lower left; all in beaded cicle.
    Rev: Byzantine emperor standing facing being crowned by the Virgin Mary standing facing; 3 generations of the ancestry of Najm al-Din Alpi around. The legend in cursive Naski. "abu al-Muzzafar Alpi / bin / Timurtash bin Ii-Ghazi bin / Artuq"; all in beaded circle.
    Notes on this coin: 12th Century Artuqid Mash-up

    And a coin that I consider a masterpiece:
    Brutus Ahala.jpg
    Roman Republican, M. Junius Brutus, 54 BC.
    AR Denarius, Rome, struck 54 BC
    Obv: Bearded and bare-headed head right of L. Junius Brutus; BRVTVS.
    Rev: Bearded and bare-headed head right of Caius Servilius Ahala; AHALA
    Size: 3.96g, 17-19mm
    Ref: Crawford 433/2; Junia 30
    Notes on this coin: An Ancient Coin for Independence Day
     
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  18. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    It is the opposite for me @NewStyleKing - my Nihonto collection consists of mostly signed koto period blades in full polish and Edo period koshirae (furniture) in sets or singles. On the other hand, my ancient coins often show much use and wear.
     
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  19. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Yes, you do have to be careful John - a high quality katana blade in full polish is just like a three foot long razor blade.
     
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  20. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Yes, I did learn a valuable lesson, and some blood.:(
     
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  21. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    For stylistic contrast to the denier, here's an obole, Duplessy 1612 (Anonymous, Marseille, c. 1186-1243); Crusafont V. IV, 171 (dating it to temp. Alfons I, Count 1162-1196).
    COINS, PROVENCE, ALPHONSE II OBOLE, HELMETED.jpg
    This is the obverse of one of the later oboles, attributed along predictable lines by both Crusafont (Jaume I, 1213-1276) and Duplessy (anonymous).
    COINS, PROVENCE, ALPHONSE II, OBOLE, OBV..JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
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