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Message:: [QUOTE="Insider, post: 8464721, member: 24314"]GDJMSP, posted: "It seems we remember things a bit differently about the advent of market grading." I agree. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> We are probably discussing something we both actually agree on <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> however IMO, the word "invent" does not apply. "The ANA meetings and discussions about the new grading system began in 1984-85.   David Hall, and a few others who were later part of PCGS, were at those meetings and participated, and contributed to developing the new market grading system. The ANA's new [<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie11" alt=":rolleyes:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />] grading book, the 5th edition [This is not a "new" book.  It is the 5th Edition.  You need a newer Edition because the 4th Edition was published SIX YEARS AFTER PCGS was founded] was actually written before PCGS was founded in 1986.[Not True. See above.] But because publishing takes a bit of time the copyright date for the book is 1987. But it was all decided and written before PCGS ever existed." This may be true.  Nevertheless, it has nothing at all to do with the INVENTION OF MARKET GRADING!!!  The ANA was forced to CHANGE their grading system/standards and ADOPT NOT INVENT the commercial grading being done by professional dealers.  The ANA INVENTED NOTHING!!!  That's why formerly graded ANA MS-65's became MS-63's! They were not "market grading." "And if you'll also think back Mike you recall that the 1st year PCGS was open, 1986, they actually tried to follow, for the most part anyway, the grading standards established by the ANA's new market grading system. [True, PCGS was conservative in the beginning.]  But, and it's a big but, by 1987 David Hall had decided that the ANA's grading standards in that book were too strict for him and so he loosened the grading standards for PCGS. There are video's, and several articles, where David Hall himself talks about this." [We agree on this.] "So yes, the ANA did invent market grading. [NO <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie98" alt=":wacky:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />] And yes, David Hall, and numerous other dealers and well known names in numismatics helped develop that grading system. [YES, I'll believe that.] The ANA did not copy what PCGS (and in 1987 NGC) did - it was the other way around. The TPGs copied the ANA, [Absolutely <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie79" alt=":rage:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> NOT!!] only the TPGs loosened their standards [Yes, I agree] so they could make their customers happy." VERIFIBLE FACTS (Confirmed by a former ANA Grader and I'll bet by any Professional major dealer you ask who knows anything.) The ANA had a coin grading service.  The ANA had a published Grading Guide.  Both of these existed long before PCGS was a gleam in the eye of David Hall or anyone else!   The ANA graded by their interpretation of "Technical Standards."The commercial coin market (PROFESSIONAL NUMISMATISTS who bought and sold coins for a living) thought the ANA grading system as practiced was a stupid <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie91" alt=":stinkyfeet:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> POS!  The ONLY folks who liked ANA grading were small dealers and most collectors... And that my friend <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> is the ENTIRE REASON PCGS CAME INTO EXISTANCE and started incorporating COMMERCIAL GRADING into the coin market causing the ANA to get out of the grading business.  COIN DEALERS "used" commercial grading and that word ONLY came into existence to differentiate it from "technical grading" being offered at the time  You must know that no one ever heard of "commercial" or "market" grading until it became obvious that the grading systems used by the first TPGS (INSAB where I worked) and the second TPGS (ANACS) did not relate at all to the grading being done by the dealers.  So as I said, the ANA "INVENTED" nothing. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]

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