Market grading...

GDJMSP, posted: "It seems we remember things a bit differently about the advent of market grading."

I agree. We are probably discussing something we both actually agree on however IMO, the word "invent" does not apply.

"The ANA meetings and discussions about the new grading system began in 1984-85. David Hall, and a few others who were later part of PCGS, were at those meetings and participated, and contributed to developing the new market grading system. The ANA's new [] grading book, the 5th edition [This is not a "new" book. It is the 5th Edition. You need a newer Edition because the 4th Edition was published SIX YEARS AFTER PCGS was founded] was actually written before PCGS was founded in 1986.[Not True. See above.] But because publishing takes a bit of time the copyright date for the book is 1987. But it was all decided and written before PCGS ever existed."

This may be true. Nevertheless, it has nothing at all to do with the INVENTION OF MARKET GRADING!!! The ANA was forced to CHANGE their grading system/standards and ADOPT NOT INVENT the commercial grading being done by professional dealers. The ANA INVENTED NOTHING!!! That's why formerly graded ANA MS-65's became MS-63's! They were not "market grading."

"And if you'll also think back Mike you recall that the 1st year PCGS was open, 1986, they actually tried to follow, for the most part anyway, the grading standards established by the ANA's new market grading system. [True, PCGS was conservative in the beginning.] But, and it's a big but, by 1987 David Hall had decided that the ANA's grading standards in that book were too strict for him and so he loosened the grading standards for PCGS. There are video's, and several articles, where David Hall himself talks about this." [We agree on this.]

"So yes, the ANA did invent market grading. [NO ] And yes, David Hall, and numerous other dealers and well known names in numismatics helped develop that grading system. [YES, I'll believe that.] The ANA did not copy what PCGS (and in 1987 NGC) did - it was the other way around. The TPGs copied the ANA, [Absolutely NOT!!] only the TPGs loosened their standards [Yes, I agree] so they could make their customers happy."

VERIFIBLE FACTS (Confirmed by a former ANA Grader and I'll bet by any Professional major dealer you ask who knows anything.)

The ANA had a coin grading service. The ANA had a published Grading Guide. Both of these existed long before PCGS was a gleam in the eye of David Hall or anyone else! The ANA graded by their interpretation of "Technical Standards."
The commercial coin market (PROFESSIONAL NUMISMATISTS who bought and sold coins for a living) thought the ANA grading system as practiced was a stupid POS! The ONLY folks who liked ANA grading were small dealers and most collectors...

And that my friend is the ENTIRE REASON PCGS CAME INTO EXISTANCE and started incorporating COMMERCIAL GRADING into the coin market causing the ANA to get out of the grading business. COIN DEALERS "used" commercial grading and that word ONLY came into existence to differentiate it from "technical grading" being offered at the time You must know that no one ever heard of "commercial" or "market" grading until it became obvious that the grading systems used by the first TPGS (INSAB where I worked) and the second TPGS (ANACS) did not relate at all to the grading being done by the dealers.

So as I said, the ANA "INVENTED" nothing.

 

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I don't know what all of carping about "market grading" is about. I started to learn to grade from the old Brown and Dunn line drawing books when I as in high school (1960s). I learned a heck a lot more from "Photograde" which I studied deeply when I was in college (late 1960s, early 1970s).

That book was a good start, but it had its flaws. At least it set some standards because before that, there were none. Some dealers were honest and grading conservatively on both ends of the transaction. Too many bought coins in one grade and sold them at a higher grade. At least the book started the learning process.

After that I looked at many thousands of the coins, tokens and medals. This learning period has been forever on-going for me.

I have not purchased all of the editions of the ANA grading guides, but the couple I have are pretty decent. It would be nice if the leading TPGs used them consistently, but they don't. The second level companies are worse. The rotten grading companies are useless.

If you are advocate of so-called "EAC grading," good for you, but expect to pay higher prices from the dealers who use it. The old saying is "If the alligators don't get you, mosquitoes will." And "There is no Santa Claus in numismatics" unless you are ripping off the collectors' widow.

BTW, I bought my avatar coin, an 1805 dime, from the late Kathern Bullowa in the mid 1970s. She called it "EF." She charged AU money for it, which is what it is. Today it's in a PCGS AU-58 holder.