Margins on High End Coins ?

Not going to argue with you there... much.To clarify I wasn't whining at all. It does take work to get a coin sold that is a fact. What if I didn't notice the 4k coin at first? perhaps it is an error hidden in a large lot of silver coinage. I am well aware that trying to pay the lowest prices isn't a good idea in fact I haven't paid the lowest prices on anything thus far. I pay at least $14 per $1 face of 90% other dealers I know in south jersey are buying for $8 per $1 face.

 

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It's called Cherrypicking.

 

Wasn't there a thread in the past where some "little old lady" went into a coin shop and bought junk silver as an "investment" and was charged outrageous prices by the dealer? I don't remember how that one turned out.

 

What would Rick Harrison do?

 

I think I recall that thread from perhaps four or five years ago and it might have been based in FL. However, the thread was so convoluted that I came to the conclusion that little of it was accurate.

 

If it is a coin that I'm buying or selling then it is my business......

 

What? A person has the right to judge any dealer for thier action or non-action. If I don't like what a dealer has done then I have not only the right to "judge" them but the right not to do business with them....

 

This thread has been quite the show. Usually doug goes unopposed as his knowledge of numismatics supersedes the rest of us. I wonder how the rest of this will play out.

Here is my 2 cents on the issue at hand: A dealer is deemed a crook or a reputable source based upon feedback from their customers. For instance if a customer buys a circulated 1921 Morgan dollar from a dealer for $40 and later finds out it is worth right about $22 first off it is the customers fault for making this mistake as he/she had lacked the numismatic knowledge. Had he/she had the knowledge he/she wouldn't have bought from the seller. But since he/she did buy the coin he/she has every right to inform other collectors about his/her particular situation and can advise to proceed with caution. A dealer that has many of the same tales floating around about him collectively make him known as an unscrupulous dealer. So while one may judge a dealer's reputation based upon the collection of tales being told about him you nor anyone else that the dealer sold coins to knows what the dealer paid for those coins the reason being is that it is a conflict of interest. You also have to note that it there is a good chance that no such profit margin exists as the dealer might be losing money on the coin and the dealer has no obligation to inform you if that is the case. That is a decision made by the dealer.
The bottom line is that if you conduct business with a dealer and purchase a coin for a fair current market price that is all that matters. The dealer might have made $5 or $50 you will not know as the dealer wouldn't tell you as it is a conflict of interest. That's just how it is.

 

Perhaps you didn't intended it to sound like whining, but it sure came off that way because of the ridiculousness of what you were attempting to justify.

As for the work issue, this is something I am well aware of, Josh.

That's fine and dandy, but is not what you said nor meant in the quoted post. As for the silver claims, they are what they are, but generic prices supposedly offered for junk has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

There are two distinct and different conversations here and the responses are not addressing the different points.

In Doug's conversation we are talking about a persons right to price, buy and sell items as they see fit. I agree with this idea

However Caleb is addressing a different senario. When we say the coin dealer buys the $5000 coin for $50 the assumption is that the dealer lies to her to get the deal.

Doug is right that the dealer has the right to tell the person he will buy the $5000 coin for $50. If the seller of the coin chooses to accept that then it is their choice.

However what Caleb (and I) assume is the dealer lies about the value of the coin in order to get it.

If the coin dealer makes an intentional misrepresentation, deception or concealment of a material fact known to the person with the intent to deprive another person of their property by telling the seller the the coin is only worth $50 when it is worth $5000 then not only can and will Caleb and I judge the dealer but where I live the state of Nevada can and will judge the dealer as well

 

What exactly do you mean by that? please elaborate.

 

It means if you know the $5000 coin is worth $5000 and you still tell the little old lady or big strong man it is only worth $50 and buy the coin for $50 that if you do it twice inside four years it is illegal in the state of nevada. Would the state try to bring this example person up on charges? I don't know. Please note the use of the word felony.

NRS 42.005

2.  “Fraud” means an intentional misrepresentation, deception or concealment of a material fact known to the person with the intent to deprive another person of his or her rights or property or to otherwise injure another person.

(I know technically the term is being defined for another statute but I'm pretty sure the definition doesn't change all that much from statute to statute)

NRS 205.377

1.  A person shall not, in the course of an enterprise or occupation, knowingly and with the intent to defraud, engage in an act, practice or course of business or employ a device, scheme or artifice which operates or would operate as a fraud or deceit upon a person by means of a false representation or omission of a material fact that:

(a) The person knows to be false or omitted;

(b) The person intends another to rely on; and

(c) Results in a loss to any person who relied on the false representation or omission,

Ê in at least two transactions that have the same or similar pattern, intents, results, accomplices, victims or methods of commission, or are otherwise interrelated by distinguishing characteristics and are not isolated incidents within 4 years and in which the aggregate loss or intended loss is more than $650.

2.  Each act which violates subsection 1 constitutes a separate offense.

3.  A person who violates subsection 1 is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 20 years, and may be further punished by a fine of not more than $10,000.

4.  In addition to any other penalty, the court shall order a person who violates subsection 1 to pay restitution.

5.  A violation of this section constitutes a deceptive trade practice for the purposes of NRS 598.0903 to 598.0999, inclusive.




You never know what you will find when combing through state laws. Apparently I can be drafted to fight fires in Nevada as well.


NRS 475.110

Able-bodied males subject to fire-fighting duty; penalty for refusal; compensation and benefits.

1.  All sheriffs, their deputies, firewardens or other peace officers or any national forest officer may call upon able-bodied male persons within the State of Nevada who are between the ages of 16 years and 50 years for assistance in extinguishing fires in timber or in brush.

2.  Persons who refuse to obey the summons or who refuse to assist in fighting fire for the period stated in subsection 3, unless they present sufficient reasons, are guilty of a misdemeanor.

3.  No male person may be required to fight fires a total of more than 5 days during any 1 year.

4.  The board of county commissioners may fix the amount of compensation to be paid to male persons drafted to fight fires as provided in this section, and the sums so fixed must be allowed and paid as other claims against the county are paid.

5.  For the purpose of obtaining the benefits of the Nevada Industrial Insurance Act, male persons drafted to fight fires must be considered employees of the county demanding their services, and they are entitled to receive for disability incurred by reason thereof the benefits under the Nevada Industrial Insurance Act. The county shall report and pay premiums to a private carrier authorized to provide industrial insurance in this State for persons so engaged.

 

Don't mess with people in Vegas . I wonder how many other states have similar laws , as I've read more about people defrauding others .

 

Actually it is a bit more serious then small claims court in Nevada. Since the state relies on gaming for a large portion of state income and because casino's employ so many people we have laws that might be more strict then you would think they should be. For example, not paying a casino marker is actually a felony. And apparently I have to fight forest fires.

 

I replied to your post faster then you could edit it.

 

That was very informative and quite interesting. I still plan on living there in a few years.

 

I got a notification saying you quoted my post but you didn't ???

 

It doesn't matter if you plan on living in vegas or not. According to your info you live in Carson city. This is a state law and assuming you are being honest you are subject to this law right now.

Ps and you are also a potential fireman just as I am.

 

I know Iowa does. I participated in a sting in 1980. In Iowa, if a professional lies in a material way about the value of an item to a non-professional, it's a felony. My job in this sting was to get one of those hotel buyers to tell me a 1894 S silver dollar in Vg, loaned to me by a local dealer, was only worth melt. Two older men were too smart and would only say over and over "my offer is X", refusing to give me a value. The third man finally got frustrated and said, 'listen kid, it's only worth junk price". That was enough, I left and sheriff's arested them. I have told this story here before.