Marcus Aurelius Sestertius - Virtus. Rare? Does it matter?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Marsyas Mike, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I recently got a batch of four Roman bronzes for $0.99 which are better than you might expect, but no beauties for sure. Attributions have been engaging for me (Elagabalus tetradrachm!), but I found one that seemed odd to me, a sestertius of Marcus Aurelius with Virtus reverse (RIC 1069). Although it looks like a typical Aurelius big bronze, it appears to be quite scarce?

    I say this because most Antonine bronzes that come my way are common and fairly easy to attribute, and I can always find many online examples to compare with. But this one almost stumped me - it is not in Wildwinds or Coin Archives. OCRE did have one - a single example from the British Museum (that weighs 34.45 grams! Is that an error?). Another example is on a UK metal detector site, a very corroded, but identifiable one found in Kent (16 grams). https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/869145
    http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.3.m_aur.1069

    There is nothing especially interesting about this one - what Doug calls gods standing around doing nothing (at least this one is wearing armor and not a robe). It looks better in hand - a thick green patina inexpertly, partially removed messed it up. What surprised me is that it appears to be so scarce, especially for an Antonine-era bronze.

    I am not looking to retire on this - I doubt it is worth much, rare or not, given its ugliness - I was just curious. Was there a slump in bronze production around 173? Is there some source for relative scarcity of issues from this era? Does anybody out there have one of these (an earlier Aurelius as Caesar with Virtus reverse seems more common)? Are there other coins of this era that you found unusually scarce? Of course, if I've misattributed this, a correction is always appreciated.

    Marcus Aurelius - Sestertius Virtus Aug 2018c.jpg

    Marcus Aurelius Æ Sestertius
    (172-173 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    M ANTONINVS AVG TR P XXVII, laureate, cuirassed bust right / [IMP VI COS III]
    SC, Virtus, standing right, holding spear resting on shield
    RIC 1069.
    (25.82 grams / 30 mm)
     
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  3. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Is it rare? Could be. Is the attribution correct? Maybe. Is it worth anything? Little.

    Keep in mind that the internet is not a reference library and just because something cant easily be found online doesnt mean it is rare (though this one could be, I dont know, I didnt look it up).
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I have stopped caring about rarity unless it keeps me from finding a coin I want so Ireally can not comment of whether the coin in question is rare or not. The reverse type is quite common (common enough for me to have one) for Marcus' co emperor Lucius Verus.
    rc2390bb0709.jpg
    There is the earlier Virtus as mentioned:
    rc2275bb2837.jpg

    That leaves us with the question:
    Does it matter?
    It most certainly does to the specialist in coins of Marcus Aurelius. Here on CT we have several specialists. We have Flavian specialists; we have Septimius specialists who don't even specialize in the same exact sub-specialities; we have Falling Horsemen specialists; we have those who specialize in anything that comes in Mint State. To each of those specialists and the host of general collectors who buy coins they like without overthinking the matter, it matters rather little. There are enough 'rare' coins that it is quite possible someone could specialize in 'Coins not known to exist in more than x examples'. For radicals x might equal one but x=10 might be possible. It might also be boring but that is quite another matter. The point is that 'matter' is another very personal question. Most of us are amazed at the yawns we encounter when we show our finest treasures to non-collectors and those who collect differently than we do. So, to you, does it matter?

    IF Ken had looked it up, he would not have just gone to Wildwinds or acsearch or any other site but would have had to put on a deeper search if the answer was to mean anything. This is a job for the specialist to whom the question really matters. If you discovered that there really were only three of these known, the question of worth in the market would still be little. Worth requires demand and there is a great deal more market value in a coin with a hundred examples and a thousand fans than one with three examples and no one who cares.
     
  5. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    This is true, so I decided to take a few moments and pull down a book (what's that???) off the shelf. None of the listings are more than 'common' but of course that means little. But I have to admit I got a little bored quickly. As this coin is so worn it can never be properly attributed. There is no reverse legend present that I can see, so it is impossible to say just what it might be (catalog-wise) exactly. To toss in a monkey wrench to the original question, consider that it may not be Virtus but Mars. As such you will likely get hundreds of examples online to view.
     
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  6. Julius Germanicus

    Julius Germanicus Well-Known Member

    Even if this was a rare type, I doubt it's market value would exceed 50 USD or so due to it's state.
    I have a Sestertius which ist the second known of it's type, certified and graded VF, plus another one that has a population of only three.
    Nevertheless neither of these has any significant value to it, because the first is of an Empress that otherweise is neither rare nor interessting, while the second one is a rare variety of an interesting type of a popular Emperor, but not interesting enough for most collectors due to it's low grade (which is nevertheless higher than that of the OP coin).
    As Doug pointed out, any iconic type (anything with Caesar's portrait or a Iudea reverse for example) will easily have ten times their value in a worse state of preservation despite there being thousands of those on the market.
    Would I trade mine against one of those? Never, because I bought these not for their rarity, but because in my eyes they are absolutely beautiful.
     
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  7. Tickle monster

    Tickle monster New Member

    Every ancient on ebay is "Rare"
     
  8. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for the help.

    Yes, I thought the reverse type was Mars initially, before I posted on Coin Talk. Indeed, as Ken suggests, Marcus Aurelius sestertii types featuring Mars are abundant – an OCRE search (time elapsed: about 30 seconds) has 28 different (RIC) hits. Most of them show Mars nude, walking with a trophy. Seven showed Mars standing the way my coin shows – fully armored, resting hand on shield – but these have the wrong obverse legend (RIC 861, 862 and 863, 888, 889, 898 and 899, all with ARMENIACVS). In fact almost all Mars reverse types have the ARMENIACVS obverse legend. Interesting? I think so - an Armenian wars tie-in, probably.

    Not Mars, so who is it? I’ve encountered Virtus on other coins in my collections (and thank you Doug for the other examples). This led me to look at Virtus as the reverse type (time elapsed: about 10 seconds, since I was already on the OCRE page). There are only three sestertii with Virtus reverse for Marcus Aurelius. Virtus is sitting in 2 out of the 3. The only one standing is RIC 1069 with a full match to the obverse inscription on mine (thus my attribution).
     
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