Machine Damage... I don't see it or get it.

I couldn't see any damage on the Morgan Dollar.

As I'm typing I'm comparing one of my own about uncirculated Morgan's and it looks identical. The only difference is I don't have natural rainbow toning on any of my dollars.

 

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That's pretty much the design , though it usually isn't that deep , definitely not damage IMHO .

 

Maybe there is edge damage that we can't see on the dime.

 

Agreed!

Chris

 

The weak tops of the letters on the die are just incomplete die fill, not damage.

 

I'm just wondering , if this was a '16-D , would it still get a Detail grade ?

 

I agree 100%.

These letters are often found weakly struck as are the reverse lettering, particularly the "TES" in STATES. I have owned dozens of Mercs with this look. Here is an example of a PCGS MS68 FB Mercury with a similar appearance.




Regarding the Morgan Dollar, there is no way to link that tiny scuff above the eye to counting machine damage and it is certainly not severe enough to make the coin a problem coin, IMO.

 

Paul an almost blast white Merc in your collection , you never cease to amaze me . That's one clean Merc . How about a reverse shot ?

 

What's going on with the morgan between 1 and 2 o'clock on the reverse rim?

 

It is not mine Rusty. I needed a large picture of a Mercury Dime with incompleteness in the peripheral lettering so I borrowed one from Heritage. However, in the late 90's, my entire collection consisted of blast white full band Mercury Dimes in PCGS holders. Guess you could say I was a kool-aid drinker back then.

Here is a photo of a Mercury Dime that I had graded and sold a few years ago with similar weakness on the lettering.

 

I think you're seeing the edges of the edge-view holder.

 

Does anyone have a photo of what actual counting wheel damage looks like? If so, then we could compare it to the phantom damage on the two coins posted in this thread.

 

bust the morgan out of that silly holder and send it in to be graded another time, and maybe by another grading service.

 

My search came up empty , then again my laptop is cr---ing out on me . All that came up was this thread and a couple that didn't fit .

 

I see something on the obverse rim on the merc and the tops of the letters too like something took the top of the rim and some of the letters on it. On the Morgan I see nothing wrong looks like a baggy 62-3 with real nice color

 

If damage from counting machines was so common place, then it should be relatively easy to find some examples. After a Heritage search, Google search, and Cointalk search, I have found very little. I know what the typical damage from counting and rolling machines looks like, but I don't think that most other members of this forum know.

PCGS can claim that the Mercury Dime in this thread has counting wheel damage and perhaps it does. But if it does, it is not in the peripheral lettering which I have already shown to be typical of Mercury Dimes. As one of the other posters pointed out, it could be on the rim of the coin and something we can't see from photographs.

That said, I can't remember seeing more than a handful of graded coins with counting wheel damage over the last decade. And keep in mind that I view almost every lot in every Heritage weekly internet auction and have for years. They are essentially a dumping ground for graded problem coins. But PCGS wants us to believe that two different coins from different series from the same submission have counting wheel damage? The premise on it's own is preposterous. In addition, nobody on this forum can identify the damage!

I have to point out Doug, that on just about every occasion with regards to current TPG grading decisions, you disagree with their assessment. But the moment they erroneously declare two coins problem coins without any visible evidence of their assessment, you are in complete agreement with their decision. Perhaps you should apply the same level of cynicism towards the PCGS in this case that you normally do.

 

I don't disagree with you simply to disagree with you, that is preposterous. In fact, I typically go out of my way to avoid confrontations with you. But our numismatic views are so divergent that it is essentially impossible to avoid debate.

The perception of the members of this forum is that you think almost every TPG graded coin is overgraded by 1 or 2 points, and it is not a small group of members who think that. If you would like to change that perception, stop saying that every coin is overgraded.

With regards to me agreeing with the TPGs, I will often defer to their judgement for two reasons. First, they are professional graders and have seen and graded far more coins than I ever will. Second, and most importantly, they have seen the coin in hand whereas all I have is a photo on the internet. No matter how good the photo, it is no substitute for an in hand inspection. I know that you will agree with that. However, that does not mean that I blindly agree with every decision made by the TPGs. This thread is a perfect example, I disagree with their decision that these coins are problem coins. When is the last time I disagreed with the TPGs? How about two weeks ago: How on earth could PCGS have graded this coin problem free I even laughed when you posted a sky is falling meme after my post.

Don't try to make this a personal thing, it isn't, I just disagree with what you are saying in the thread. And for the record, who are the other members in this thread who agree with you about the machine damage? I saw a few members early in the thread guessing as to why the TPGs would say these are problem coins, but the overwhelming majority of responses think that there is nothing wrong with either coin.