Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Ludwig van Beethoven's lost Groschen
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="CoinCorgi, post: 8354215, member: 88934"]So I've been trying to figure something out and need help (because I don't know much about non-U.S. Coins).</p><p><br /></p><p>It starts with Beethoven.</p><p><br /></p><p>Beethoven composed a piano rondo titled <i>"Rondo alla ingharese quasi un capriccio"</i> in G major, Op. 129 (Italian for "Rondo in the Hungarian [i.e. gypsy] style, almost a caprice"). A manuscript of the piece is pictured here with the words “<i>alla ingharese quasi un capriccio” </i>written in the upper left corner.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1482629[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>However, it is better known by the title <i>“Rage Over a Lost Penny, Vented in a Caprice”</i> (from German: Die Wut über den verlorenen <span style="color: #ff0000">Groschen</span>, ausgetobt in einer Caprice). These words were written by Beethoven’s acquaintance Anton Schindler upon the same manuscript (sorry, no picture).</p><p><br /></p><p>The piece has been dated to between 1795 and 1798.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, what is the backstory, or origin, of the <i>“Rage Over a Lost Penny”</i> title? The commonly told version of the legend behind the title goes something like:</p><p><br /></p><blockquote><p>“At one point Beethoven was composing his famed RONDO E CAPRICCIO, a booming and boisterous piece that exuded energy and vitality. One night a neighbor heard a loud dispute. Beethoven was in a rage, accusing a maid of stealing a <span style="color: #ff0000">gold penny</span>. The maid ran out and was never heard from again.</p><p><br /></p><p>The neighbor then heard furniture crashing, and he could only conclude that the great Maestro was tipping over furniture, madly looking for the lost gold penny. The story spread through the neighborhood, and became part of the legend of Beethoven’s bad moods and curmudgeonly behavior.”</p></blockquote><p><br /></p><p>How and by whom the German word “Groschen” got translated into “penny” is a mystery to me. How the legend then further changed “penny” to “gold penny” is yet another mystery. I don’t think the literal translation from the German “Groschen” is “penny” (correct me if I am mistaken). I don’t know German, and I don’t know if current meaning of Groschen would correspond to the meaning in 1795! And don’t forget, Beethoven was living in Austria at the time, not Germany. Are there any Gold Groschen? I thought groschen was originally a catch all name for thick <i>silver</i> coins.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Can anyone help with figuring out what coin could have been the one that the maid lost and thus set off Beethoven at the time he was composing this fantastic and enjoyable piece? </b></p><p><br /></p><p>Have a listen while you ponder this dilemma…</p><p><br /></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]zQn4Qfy_Bek[/MEDIA]</p><p><br /></p><p>Thanks for reading and for any help you can provide?[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="CoinCorgi, post: 8354215, member: 88934"]So I've been trying to figure something out and need help (because I don't know much about non-U.S. Coins). It starts with Beethoven. Beethoven composed a piano rondo titled [I]"Rondo alla ingharese quasi un capriccio"[/I] in G major, Op. 129 (Italian for "Rondo in the Hungarian [i.e. gypsy] style, almost a caprice"). A manuscript of the piece is pictured here with the words “[I]alla ingharese quasi un capriccio” [/I]written in the upper left corner. [ATTACH=full]1482629[/ATTACH] However, it is better known by the title [I]“Rage Over a Lost Penny, Vented in a Caprice”[/I] (from German: Die Wut über den verlorenen [COLOR=#ff0000]Groschen[/COLOR], ausgetobt in einer Caprice). These words were written by Beethoven’s acquaintance Anton Schindler upon the same manuscript (sorry, no picture). The piece has been dated to between 1795 and 1798. So, what is the backstory, or origin, of the [I]“Rage Over a Lost Penny”[/I] title? The commonly told version of the legend behind the title goes something like: [INDENT]“At one point Beethoven was composing his famed RONDO E CAPRICCIO, a booming and boisterous piece that exuded energy and vitality. One night a neighbor heard a loud dispute. Beethoven was in a rage, accusing a maid of stealing a [COLOR=#ff0000]gold penny[/COLOR]. The maid ran out and was never heard from again. The neighbor then heard furniture crashing, and he could only conclude that the great Maestro was tipping over furniture, madly looking for the lost gold penny. The story spread through the neighborhood, and became part of the legend of Beethoven’s bad moods and curmudgeonly behavior.”[/INDENT] How and by whom the German word “Groschen” got translated into “penny” is a mystery to me. How the legend then further changed “penny” to “gold penny” is yet another mystery. I don’t think the literal translation from the German “Groschen” is “penny” (correct me if I am mistaken). I don’t know German, and I don’t know if current meaning of Groschen would correspond to the meaning in 1795! And don’t forget, Beethoven was living in Austria at the time, not Germany. Are there any Gold Groschen? I thought groschen was originally a catch all name for thick [I]silver[/I] coins. [B]Can anyone help with figuring out what coin could have been the one that the maid lost and thus set off Beethoven at the time he was composing this fantastic and enjoyable piece? [/B] Have a listen while you ponder this dilemma… [MEDIA=youtube]zQn4Qfy_Bek[/MEDIA] Thanks for reading and for any help you can provide?[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Ludwig van Beethoven's lost Groschen
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...