Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Lucius Verus/Mt. Argaeus: a reverse variety not listed in RPC Online?
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 4918669, member: 110350"]Not everything I've bought in the last few months is either a Roman Republican coin or a Roman Provincial from Alexandria -- here's a Roman Provincial from somewhere else!</p><p><br /></p><p>Lucius Verus AR Didrachm 161-166 AD, Caesarea, Cappadocia. Obv. Bare head right, ΑΥΤΟΚΡ ΟΥΗΡΟϹ ϹƐΒΑϹΤΟϹ / Rev. Mt. Argaeus (or cult image of same), surmounted by statue of Helios standing three-quarters left with long scepter in left hand and globe in right; flames to left and right on sides of mountain; animal [deer?] bounding left at bottom far left of mountain in front of large rock; tree in front of large rock at bottom far right; smaller rock dotted with trees[?] at bottom center; ΥΠΑ-ΤΟϹ Β [= COS II]. RPC [<i>Roman Provincial Coinage</i>] Online Vol. IV.3 7027 (temp.) [<i>rev. var</i>.] (see <a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027" rel="nofollow">https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027</a>); Sydenham 352 [<i>rev. var</i>.] [Sydenham, E., <i>The Coinage of Caesarea in Cappadocia </i>(London 1933)]; Metcalf, Caesarea 131a [<i>rev. var</i>.] [Metcalf, W.E., <i>The Silver Coinage of Cappadocia, Vespasian-Commodus</i>. ANSNNM (American Numismatic Society, Numismatic Notes & Monographs) No. 166 (New York 1996)]; <i>Metcalf Hoard</i> 694-718 & PL 39-40 [<i>rev. var</i>.] [<i>see id</i>.]; SNG von Aulock 6438 [<i>rev. var</i>.] [<i>Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Deutschland, Sammlung Hans Von Aulock,</i> <i>Vol. 2: Caria, Lydia, Phrygia, Lycia, Pamphylia</i> (Berlin 1962)]. 20 mm., 6.70 g., 6 h.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1185278[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>I've wanted a coin with a Mt. Argaeus reverse for a while, and when I saw this one I couldn't resist. The reverse is in pretty great condition as these things go (and I love the deer at the bottom left), and I really liked the obverse as well.</p><p><br /></p><p>Why do I think it's a reverse variety not in RPC Online? RPC IV.3 lists 26 Lucius Verus coins from Caesarea. See <a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=6&number=&city_id=48&region_id=&province_id=&subprovince_id=&reign_id=60&obverse_person_id%5B0%5D=145&date_min=&date_max=&obverse_inscription_simplified=&reverse_inscription_simplified=&obverse_design=&reverse_design=&metal_id=&weight_min=&weight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=&page=1" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=6&number=&city_id=48&region_id=&province_id=&subprovince_id=&reign_id=60&obverse_person_id%5B0%5D=145&date_min=&date_max=&obverse_inscription_simplified=&reverse_inscription_simplified=&obverse_design=&reverse_design=&metal_id=&weight_min=&weight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=&page=1" rel="nofollow">https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=6&number=&city_id=48&region_id=&province_id=&subprovince_id=&reign_id=60&obverse_person_id[0]=145&date_min=&date_max=&obverse_inscription_simplified=&reverse_inscription_simplified=&obverse_design=&reverse_design=&metal_id=&weight_min=&weight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=&page=1</a> . All 26 have Lucius Verus on the obverse facing right, and Mt. Argaeus on the reverse.</p><p><br /></p><p>Of the 26, there are 9 which, like mine, show Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a statue of Helios (RPC Nos. 6866, 6873, 7027, 7028, 7029, 7030, 7031, 7032, & 8008). There are also 7 showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a star (Nos. 7033, 7034, 7035, 7036, 7037, 7038, & 8515), 1 showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a wreath (No. 6868), and 9 showing Mt. Argaeus not surmounted by any figure or object, all described as having a "tall conical top" (Nos. 6767, 6857, 6867, 86869, 6870, 6871, 8009, 8010, & 8011).</p><p><br /></p><p>And, out of the 9 showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a statue of Helios on the reverse, only one -- No. 7027 -- shows Lucius Verus bare headed on the obverse, like mine. The other 8 all show him either with a laureate wreath, and/or with various combinations of drapery, cuirass, and/or paludamentum.</p><p><br /></p><p>However, as you can see from the photo at RPC Online, No. 7027 -- the one bare-headed obverse variety with a reverse showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a statue of Helios -- has a reverse that varies from mine in a couple of respects. See <a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027" rel="nofollow">https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027</a>:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1185296[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1185297[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>First, I see no indication on No. 7027 of a deer bounding at the bottom left. More importantly (since I suppose there could have been such an animal originally and it completely wore away), the coin has three comparatively small rocks in the center of the bottom row, by contrast to my coin's single larger rock with dots on it (which I speculated in my description might be intended to indicate trees) in the bottom center. There are some other, smaller differences between the two reverses farther up the mountain.</p><p><br /></p><p>In short, it's pretty clear to me that my coin is different from RPC 7027, and isn't otherwise listed in RPC Online. Certainly, the two reverses (RPC 7027 and mine) differ at least as much as the differences between and among many of the 26 variations that RPC does list, and separately numbers.</p><p><br /></p><p>In terms of whether my reverse variation might be cataloged elsewhere, the only other catalog I've seen with nearly as many variations of Lucius Verus/Mt. Argaeus is the Metcalf book mentioned above in my description of my coin. That book is available online at <a href="https://archive.org/details/silvercoinageofc00metc" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://archive.org/details/silvercoinageofc00metc" rel="nofollow">https://archive.org/details/silvercoinageofc00metc</a>, and includes an enumeration of the "Metcalf Hoard" that lists 25 examples (Nos. 694-718) of silver coins from Caesarea with Lucius Verus bare-headed and Mt. Argaeus on the reverse. All 25 are illustrated in Plates 39-40. But, although some of the plate illustrations aren't too clear in the online version of the book, they're all clear enough for me to see that each appears to show three smaller rocks in the bottom center of Mt. Argaeus -- like RPC 7027, and unlike mine. I don't have access to von Aulock, but all of the other listings (like Sydenham Caesarea 352 and the separately-listed Metcalf 131a) are much more general.</p><p><br /></p><p>I did, however, find two coins more like mine (albeit not identical to mine) at acsearch and the CNG archives; both show Lucius bare-headed on the obverse, and clearly show the bounding deer at the bottom left, and the single dotted rock at the bottom center, of Mt. Argaeus on the reverse. The first is from a Heritage auction, No. 231940, Lot 61107, from March 10, 2019; the image is at <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=6340129" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=6340129" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=6340129</a>:</p><p><br /></p><p> [ATTACH=full]1185308[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>The other coin I found with a reverse that's more like mine was sold at CNG 's e-auction No. 77 as Lot 159 on Nov. 28, 2007; the image is at <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=421738" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=421738" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=421738</a>, as well as at <a href="https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=114052" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=114052" rel="nofollow">https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=114052</a> (with the auction description):</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1185309[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Neither lot description mentions RPC 7027 or any other RPC number (of course RPC IV.3 Online wasn't even available back in 2007); both simply list Sydenham Caesarea 352 and Metcalf Caesarea 131a.</p><p><br /></p><p>If anyone has gotten this far with me, and agrees with me that my specific variation of the Lucius Verus didrachm from Caesarea with Mt. Argaeus on the reverse doesn't seem to be separately cataloged at RPC or elsewhere, do you think it's worth submitting photos of the coin to RPC to be considered for a new number? I've never tried to do that, but I believe there's a procedure for doing so..</p><p><br /></p><p>Please post your own coins from Caesarea with Mt. Argaeus reverses (from any emperor), or your own coins, of any kind, that you've submitted to RPC, or anything else you think is relevant.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 4918669, member: 110350"]Not everything I've bought in the last few months is either a Roman Republican coin or a Roman Provincial from Alexandria -- here's a Roman Provincial from somewhere else! Lucius Verus AR Didrachm 161-166 AD, Caesarea, Cappadocia. Obv. Bare head right, ΑΥΤΟΚΡ ΟΥΗΡΟϹ ϹƐΒΑϹΤΟϹ / Rev. Mt. Argaeus (or cult image of same), surmounted by statue of Helios standing three-quarters left with long scepter in left hand and globe in right; flames to left and right on sides of mountain; animal [deer?] bounding left at bottom far left of mountain in front of large rock; tree in front of large rock at bottom far right; smaller rock dotted with trees[?] at bottom center; ΥΠΑ-ΤΟϹ Β [= COS II]. RPC [[I]Roman Provincial Coinage[/I]] Online Vol. IV.3 7027 (temp.) [[I]rev. var[/I].] (see [URL]https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027[/URL]); Sydenham 352 [[I]rev. var[/I].] [Sydenham, E., [I]The Coinage of Caesarea in Cappadocia [/I](London 1933)]; Metcalf, Caesarea 131a [[I]rev. var[/I].] [Metcalf, W.E., [I]The Silver Coinage of Cappadocia, Vespasian-Commodus[/I]. ANSNNM (American Numismatic Society, Numismatic Notes & Monographs) No. 166 (New York 1996)]; [I]Metcalf Hoard[/I] 694-718 & PL 39-40 [[I]rev. var[/I].] [[I]see id[/I].]; SNG von Aulock 6438 [[I]rev. var[/I].] [[I]Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Deutschland, Sammlung Hans Von Aulock,[/I] [I]Vol. 2: Caria, Lydia, Phrygia, Lycia, Pamphylia[/I] (Berlin 1962)]. 20 mm., 6.70 g., 6 h. [ATTACH=full]1185278[/ATTACH] I've wanted a coin with a Mt. Argaeus reverse for a while, and when I saw this one I couldn't resist. The reverse is in pretty great condition as these things go (and I love the deer at the bottom left), and I really liked the obverse as well. Why do I think it's a reverse variety not in RPC Online? RPC IV.3 lists 26 Lucius Verus coins from Caesarea. See [URL='https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=6&number=&city_id=48®ion_id=&province_id=&subprovince_id=&reign_id=60&obverse_person_id%5B0%5D=145&date_min=&date_max=&obverse_inscription_simplified=&reverse_inscription_simplified=&obverse_design=&reverse_design=&metal_id=&weight_min=&weight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=&page=1']https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=6&number=&city_id=48®ion_id=&province_id=&subprovince_id=&reign_id=60&obverse_person_id[0]=145&date_min=&date_max=&obverse_inscription_simplified=&reverse_inscription_simplified=&obverse_design=&reverse_design=&metal_id=&weight_min=&weight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=&page=1[/URL] . All 26 have Lucius Verus on the obverse facing right, and Mt. Argaeus on the reverse. Of the 26, there are 9 which, like mine, show Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a statue of Helios (RPC Nos. 6866, 6873, 7027, 7028, 7029, 7030, 7031, 7032, & 8008). There are also 7 showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a star (Nos. 7033, 7034, 7035, 7036, 7037, 7038, & 8515), 1 showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a wreath (No. 6868), and 9 showing Mt. Argaeus not surmounted by any figure or object, all described as having a "tall conical top" (Nos. 6767, 6857, 6867, 86869, 6870, 6871, 8009, 8010, & 8011). And, out of the 9 showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a statue of Helios on the reverse, only one -- No. 7027 -- shows Lucius Verus bare headed on the obverse, like mine. The other 8 all show him either with a laureate wreath, and/or with various combinations of drapery, cuirass, and/or paludamentum. However, as you can see from the photo at RPC Online, No. 7027 -- the one bare-headed obverse variety with a reverse showing Mt. Argaeus surmounted by a statue of Helios -- has a reverse that varies from mine in a couple of respects. See [URL]https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/4/7027[/URL]: [ATTACH=full]1185296[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1185297[/ATTACH] First, I see no indication on No. 7027 of a deer bounding at the bottom left. More importantly (since I suppose there could have been such an animal originally and it completely wore away), the coin has three comparatively small rocks in the center of the bottom row, by contrast to my coin's single larger rock with dots on it (which I speculated in my description might be intended to indicate trees) in the bottom center. There are some other, smaller differences between the two reverses farther up the mountain. In short, it's pretty clear to me that my coin is different from RPC 7027, and isn't otherwise listed in RPC Online. Certainly, the two reverses (RPC 7027 and mine) differ at least as much as the differences between and among many of the 26 variations that RPC does list, and separately numbers. In terms of whether my reverse variation might be cataloged elsewhere, the only other catalog I've seen with nearly as many variations of Lucius Verus/Mt. Argaeus is the Metcalf book mentioned above in my description of my coin. That book is available online at [URL]https://archive.org/details/silvercoinageofc00metc[/URL], and includes an enumeration of the "Metcalf Hoard" that lists 25 examples (Nos. 694-718) of silver coins from Caesarea with Lucius Verus bare-headed and Mt. Argaeus on the reverse. All 25 are illustrated in Plates 39-40. But, although some of the plate illustrations aren't too clear in the online version of the book, they're all clear enough for me to see that each appears to show three smaller rocks in the bottom center of Mt. Argaeus -- like RPC 7027, and unlike mine. I don't have access to von Aulock, but all of the other listings (like Sydenham Caesarea 352 and the separately-listed Metcalf 131a) are much more general. I did, however, find two coins more like mine (albeit not identical to mine) at acsearch and the CNG archives; both show Lucius bare-headed on the obverse, and clearly show the bounding deer at the bottom left, and the single dotted rock at the bottom center, of Mt. Argaeus on the reverse. The first is from a Heritage auction, No. 231940, Lot 61107, from March 10, 2019; the image is at [URL]https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=6340129[/URL]: [ATTACH=full]1185308[/ATTACH] The other coin I found with a reverse that's more like mine was sold at CNG 's e-auction No. 77 as Lot 159 on Nov. 28, 2007; the image is at [URL]https://www.acsearch.info/image.html?id=421738[/URL], as well as at [URL]https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=114052[/URL] (with the auction description): [ATTACH=full]1185309[/ATTACH] Neither lot description mentions RPC 7027 or any other RPC number (of course RPC IV.3 Online wasn't even available back in 2007); both simply list Sydenham Caesarea 352 and Metcalf Caesarea 131a. If anyone has gotten this far with me, and agrees with me that my specific variation of the Lucius Verus didrachm from Caesarea with Mt. Argaeus on the reverse doesn't seem to be separately cataloged at RPC or elsewhere, do you think it's worth submitting photos of the coin to RPC to be considered for a new number? I've never tried to do that, but I believe there's a procedure for doing so.. Please post your own coins from Caesarea with Mt. Argaeus reverses (from any emperor), or your own coins, of any kind, that you've submitted to RPC, or anything else you think is relevant.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Lucius Verus/Mt. Argaeus: a reverse variety not listed in RPC Online?
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...
