Love this unknown Islamic coin ( 3 from 3 )

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Plautilla, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. Plautilla

    Plautilla Member

    Have a few unknown Islamic coins in my collection. Hope someone here can ID these.
    This is 3 from 3.
    Hope someone can ID this. 28 (3).JPG
     
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  3. NOS

    NOS Former Coin Hoarder

    I'm going to take a guess here that neither this nor your two from three coin are Islamic. This one in particular I'd say is likely from South Asia. India but particularly Nepal wouldn't be too surprising.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  4. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    The coin to the left should be turned 90 degrees counter clockwise. Then you can clearly read Arabic. It's likely to be Abbassid. Maybe Al Imam Almus...?
     
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  5. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    I think it’s about 13th century. Take a look at Zeno.ru, maybe it’s Ayyubid.
     
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  6. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @NOS, I'm thinking you're the one on the right scent here. The obverse (well, left) is clearly not Arabic, and the central motif appears to be figurative. Got to be some south, and /or Central Asian stuff going on in this house.
     
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  7. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    The coin is in fact Islamic and the inscriptions are in Arabic. Ilkhans, Abu Sa'id, 1315-1336, AE fals. Your coin is an overstrike or multiple strike, which complicates things, but the ruler's name is legible within the arch. The design resembles the mihrab (mosque niche) type used on his precious metal issues from AH 719-723.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  8. LaCointessa

    LaCointessa Well-Known Member



    wow. really looks like some of my 'Indian' coins
     
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  9. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    ...Guess it just takes being literate in the first place. @LaCointessa, we were both busted (...thank you for your implicit commiseration). I'm gratefully deferring to @dltsrq.
     
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  10. LaCointessa

    LaCointessa Well-Known Member

    Yeah...my Arabic sux :-D
     
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  11. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Thanks very much, @dltsrq. In fact Abu Sa'id is (numismatically) one of my favorites because of his very various and splendidly designed coins, like this silver double dirham of 729 AH = 1329 AD.

    6954 IL Tabriz 729 ct.jpg

    But I don't know much about Ilkhan copper coins and I can't really read the OP fals.
     
  12. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    If you rotate the obverse 90° anticlockwise, you should be able to read Abu Sa'id: ابو سعيد.

    Compare the beginning of the middle line on the right-hand face of your double dirham.

    What I initially thought was also Abu Sa'id on the other side, inverted at top, above the Kalima, is more likely Abu Bakr. The names of the four Rashidun are often found positioned thusly in the margin segments.
     
  13. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @dltsrq, you just Rock.... Any house, any musical genre, but you Rock.
     
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  14. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Naturally, I should have illustrated this with a mihrab type coin from my collection, it's another Abu Sa'id double dirham, issued in 721 AH (= 1321 AD) if I'm not erring.

    abu said 721 ct.jpg

    On the left side you see the mosque niche design. I wonder if it's built up from Arabic lettering.

    ------
    Maybe I should expand the description a bit for better understanding this type of coin. In the first place, the diameter is 23.5 mm and the weight 3.60 gr. Technically, it's Type C (Ab- 488) in the Ilkhan catalog of Ömer Diler. It has the color of excellent silver.
    On the obverse, the left picture, you will find the islamic creed in its sunnite form. That is the Kalima: lā 'ilāha 'illā -llāhu/ muḥammadun rasūlu -llāhi. Under this, you find the names of the first four caliphs, starting with Abu Bakr. The mihrab is formed by a very long-winding word, the start of a Quran surah.

    At the other side - here the right picture - you find the name of the ruler, Abu Sa'id, the mint and the year. Abu Sa'id's name ابو سعید is in the left half of the middle line. In the four lobes of the lobed square are holy words. But outside the square you may find the most important numismatic details: year and mint. Now these words are all very small and I can't read the mint (upper left, all you see is a letter like Latin 'V'), but I think the year is 721.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
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  15. Plautilla

    Plautilla Member

    So this is the way I should look at this coin. I hope this will help.
    Thanks everyone for helping so far.
    I can't read islamic, and I saw some kind of head in the left picture!
    Now I see my mistake. 28 (4).JPG
     
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  16. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    Yep. According to Steve Album ('Checklist', p. 235, 2198), "The mihrab-type design... is formed from the Arabic word fasayakfikahum ("he will suffice ye against them"), arranged to resemble a mihrab, from the Qur'an 2:137."
    فسيكفيكهم
     
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  17. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    (I just edited my text by adding a more extensive description under the two dirham coin)
     
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  18. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    @Pellinore I believe your coin is Arzinjan mint, AH 719. The "V" is the Arabic preposition fi. Anticlockwise from 3h I read duriba / Arzinjan / fi / sanat / tis' / 'ashr / wa seb' / mi'at ("was struck / [at] Arzinjan / in / year / nine / ten / and seven / hundred").

    ضرب / ارزنجان / في / سنة / تسع / عشر / و سبع / مِائَة‎
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
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  19. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    @dltsrq Thank you very much. My anticlockwise reading started elsewhere, now I understand.
     
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  20. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Here's a like coin, another double dirham, but even more difficult to understand. Besides, something apparently went wrong when it was struck: the lower part shows a different coin's understrike, I think. It looks clear enough, but the most simple words are clearly different. I hope you can again help me read it.

    6969 aw.jpg
     
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