Lot of 71 copper coins. Italian states 1500s mostly?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by The Eidolon, Oct 17, 2020.

  1. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    I have had some success typing partial legends into the search function at MA-Shops. There are lots of older European minors listed. It also works well to confirm an attribution since the dealers usually have a picture of a coin that is in decent shape.
     
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  3. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Savoy 2 Denari 1717-1730.jpeg
    r6c8 could be any of the Savoy 2 denari from the early 1700s. This one (1717-8) is
    the closest in weight (1.65g matches mine exactly), but I'm not sure how seriously
    to take weight measurements on these early, irregular coins. This Sardinian one is
    very similar, but the ring of the crown touches the knot, and the crossovers of the
    knot are in the reversed direction. Date is unfortunately unreadable below the knot,
    and I can't make out anything on the obverse.
     
  4. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Here are some new photos of individual coins. I realize that many of these will
    never be identifiable, but we've had pretty good luck so far. Thanks for all the help.

    r1c10 22 mm 4.49 g
    r1c10.jpeg

    r3c9 19 mm 1.48 g
    r3c9.jpeg

    r2c10 23 mm 5.08 g
    r2c10.jpeg

    r5c9 17 mm 0.74 g
    r5c9.jpeg

    r5c10 14 to 16 mm (squarish), 1.03 g r5c10.jpeg
     
  5. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    A couple more photos. These 2 have a similar monogram. An L?
    On the left one I think I see "C VEL E" from 2:00 to 6:00
    Right one might have "TT" at 1:00
    Any wild guesses would be greatly welcomed!
    Ob.jpg Rev.jpg
     
  6. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

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  7. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    I think you may be right about r2c10. For a moment I was pretty sure I could see
    the loops of the ribbon and the wreath, but now I'm not sure. I'm soaking it now
    and will check on it in a few days. If it's any clearer afterward I'll try to post a
    picture. Thanks for your help on these. I'm not expecting to get rich off of any of
    them in this condition, but it's been fun trying to ID them. contrast.jpeg
     
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  8. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Here's another one that's been bothering me: r4c9, 1.69 g, 20 mm
    I feel like there's enough detail to ID it, but I'm having difficulty
    reading some of the perimeter lettering.
    One side has a haloed figure with right hand raised inside a ring of dots,
    I think. I think I can make out "D" ..."EN" and "OST" around the halo.
    But searching for those strings doesn't come up with anything close yet.
    r4c9.jpeg
    edit: Some of the Swiss Cantons have similar layouts, like this billon
    schilling. But the lettering is not close, and mine is heavier.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
    Bradley Trotter likes this.
  9. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

    If the contents of this lot are any indication, R4C9 is probably from the Italian States. Based on the remaining lettering and design, I believe it is a Venetian 1 Soldo from 1623 - 1778, like the one in the link below.

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces54260.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  10. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    I think you've got the right category, thanks! I believe it might specifically be
    this one, from 1684-88 under Marcantonio Giustinian. When I looked the beaded
    ring on the reverse, one thing that bugged me is that is irregular. It starts around
    chin height on the left and ends at the top of the head on the right side. Of all the
    series of Ventetian copper 1 soldo coins, that was the only one I saw where the

    Numista image had the same irregularity. I don't know how consistent the
    manufacture was for coins this old. Mine has the text around 1:00 half off the
    flan, but the full text is visible on the left. The "S" of "DEFENS" seems to be
    missing entirely though, with no room between the N and the head of Jesus.
    I imagine many of these old coins from the 1600s have lots of different minor
    variations of the coin text, some of them not differentiated in catalogs.
    r4c9 comparison.jpeg
    comparison: mine is on the left

    edit: Never mind--I see that the Doge's name is on the obverse ending
    at around the 4:00 position. Mine has "ERI" at that point (maybe "ENI")
    which would only be Francesco Erizzo (ERI) or Alvise Mocenigo II (ENI).
    I think it looks more like "ERI" so in spite of some minor differences from
    the variant pictured, I'm going to guess it is Francesco Erizzo, 1641-46,
    2.04 g billon, 21 mm. Mine is about 0.3 g light, and the diameter is low by
    1-2 mm, which could be from wear or clipping.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  11. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    To follow up, here is r2c10 before and after a DI soak for a week or two:
    before:
    r2c10 before.jpeg
    After:
    r2c10 after.jpeg

    The obverse is slightly off-angled between the two photos, sorry. Either way, it
    looks more like the surface of the moon than a coin to me, so I'm going to give
    up on this one for now. Thanks for all of the help.
     
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