Lot of 71 copper coins. Italian states 1500s mostly?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by The Eidolon, Oct 17, 2020.

  1. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Got these today from a coin shop for $50, which works out to about 70 cents per coin.
    The only one I've IDed so far (not pictured) was a Kingdom of Napoleon 1 centismo
    from 1807. The shopkeeper thought most of these were older, maybe 1500s from
    around Italy for many of them.

    These are in pretty rough shape, but any suggestions as to what some of them might
    be or what's a good resource to ID them would be welcome. I'm happy to take a better
    photo front and back of any individual ones by row/column if that would help. Thanks!
    part 1.jpg part 2.jpg
     
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  3. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Well-Known Member

    They looker older than 1800's,no? Then Again I'm lost on these coins
     
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  4. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I think a lot of them are probably late Renaissance. The one I happened to
    be able to pick out was Napoleon because I recognized his profile, but I think most
    of the rest are a lot older.
     
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  5. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Well-Known Member

    I'm only good back to the 1700's.
     
  6. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
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  7. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    Second photo, next-to-bottom row, second full coin in, I can read MARC VEN, which may be referring to the city of Venice and its patron Saint Mark. Sorry, that's all I can guess.
     
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  8. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Nice catch, thanks! I can only make out "DUX VIII" on the obverse, but the coat of arms looks the same. Reverse is too worn to read much of anything, and has a weird indent that looks kind of like a counterstamp.

    I'll try to take better pictures of a few of the clearer coins eventually.
    Sesino.jpeg
     
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  9. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

  10. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Thanks! You have a good eye for this. I think this one could be the match:
    Margrivate of Burgau 1/4 Kreuzer 1772-8 Margrivate of Burgau 1:4 Kreuzer 1772-8.jpeg The reverse is not very clear, but the front matches pretty well. 19 mm dia.
     
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  11. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Second page, 3rd row, last column:
    Switzerland, 1850, 2 Rappen
    about 20 mm dia which is why I think it's a 2 and not a 1. Back is unreadable
    2 Rappen 1850.jpg
     
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  12. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

  13. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

    Judging by the obverse design it could either be a billon 10 or 20 Rappen since the diameter isn't all that different on both denominations.
     
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  14. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Ah, I checked the diameter more closely, and I think you are right. It's a closer fit to the billon 10 rappen than to the 2 or the 20. The color is also more greyish than is typical for old copper, so billon makes sense. The shield has a concave curve on both sides which the 1 and 2 don't have but the 10 and 20 do. Thanks!
     
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  15. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    OK, I took some more detailed individual photos.
    The quality is pretty terrible, sorry.
    I'm having trouble getting them in sharp focus on the worn copper.
    r = row#, c=column# so I can keep track of which was which.
    Some of my rough guesses on visible parts of the text included.
    Any wild guesses even would be much appreciated!
    Will try to improve my photo setup and take more later.

    r6c7 "ARC.VIN"
    r6c7.jpeg
    r3c1 "BO VIA OCFT"
    r3c1.jpeg
    r4c5 "V.V SESN"
    r4c5.jpeg
    r6c8 crown over a loop like a double figure eight
    r6c8.jpeg
    r6c10 "VV CIVI"
    r6c10.jpeg
     
  16. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

    R6C7: I believe @Parthicus suggested it was Venetian in origin. Here are some possibilities: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/in...&f=&g=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&cat=y&ct=coin.

    R3C1: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/in...&f=&g=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&cat=y&ct=coin

    R4C5: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces115590.html

    R6C8: Could I have some measurements?

    R6C10: Some clearer photos and measurements would help in identifying it.

    Edit: R6C10 might be a low-purity coin silver based on the color.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
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  17. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    You are right! That was enough to get me started.
    I am pretty sure it's a Venetian 6 Bagattini = 1/2 soldo, 1619
    It's a lot easier once I figured out the correct orientation.
    Venice 1:2 Soldo 1619.jpeg
     
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  18. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    r3c1: I agree with the Papal States. Date is hard to read. Maybe 1609?
    1.81 g and 21 mm, but it's pretty worn

    r4c5: Modena! Fun, I've actually visited there and seen a balsamic vinegar maker.

    r6c8: 1.65 grams, about 14 to 16 mm diameter. It's kind of rhomboid, so the smallest diameter is 14 mm and 16 mm at the corners. I wish I could look up that
    double figure eight monogram under the crown, but I don't even know what to call it

    r6c10: Here's some ugly photos with oblique lighting to show surface texture.
    r6c10.jpeg

    Thanks for all of your help! I'm making progress...
     
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  19. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    This looks like a fun lot to research - and a good price too. I like to buy ancients in lots like this - it is affordable and fun to figure out.

    Whenever I get unattributed coins I first try a Google image searches with the legend. It is amazing how often this works. I typed in "bologna coin ae" and got a few hits - the r3c1 "BO VIA OCFT" might be similar to this one, from a Vcoin listing (although yours seems to have a 1600s date):

    Italian Papal States. Bologna. Pope Clement XI (1700-1721). AE Quattrinino 1713. F/VF. https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/co...1_ae_quattrinino_1713_fvf/329105/Default.aspx

    Italian Papal States. Bologna. Pope Clement XI (1700-1721). AE Quattrinino 1713.jpg


    Even if not an exact match, yours does seem to be Papal States, Bologna.
     
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  20. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

    R6C8: It appears to be a 2 Denari from either the Duchy of Savoy or the Kingdom of Sardinia, like the coin below.

    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces135635.html

    R6C10: What is the diameter of this coin? Otherwise, I'm quite stumped as to what it is. However, I believe it may be French due to what appears to be a fleur-di-lis.
     
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  21. Rich Buck

    Rich Buck Yukon Cornelius

     
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