Looking for some help identifying this Hadrian Denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Paul_NL, Aug 3, 2020.

  1. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL New Member

    Hi, I'm a collector from the Netherlands (sorry for my english) and looking for some help.

    Last year I purchased a Hadrian denarius form Lanz Numismatik but I had difficulty finding out what type it exactly is. The obverse legend reads 'IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG' and the reverse 'P M TR P COS III', showing deity Felicitas, standing left, holding caduceus and cornucopia (see pictures). No text in field or exergue. So I thought it must be a RIC II Hadrian 83. However all coins of this type show a bust of Hadrian with bare chest and traces of drapery on the far (left) shoulder. On my coin however, also the right shoulder is draped (or cuirassed?).

    Recently, the OCRE records of Hadrian have been updated. RIC II Hadrian 83 is now listed as RIC II, Part 3 (second edition) Hadrian 220-222 and it looks like the type I was looking for has been added as subtype no.222 since the obverse of this type is described as 'Bust of Hadrian, laureate, cuirassed, right, viewed from front'. Unfortunately there are no examples of this type on the OCRE site.

    Am I right in thinking this coin is a RIC II, Part 3 (second edition) Hadrian 222? Or is it another type that I am overlooking? Does anyone have an example of a this 222 type?

    Apart from the above there are two other things on the coin that I noticed comparing it to other examples:
    1. Felicitas is holding the caduceus quite horizontal compared to other examples (although I found a similar one on the internet: https://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImperial/II/Hadrian/Hadrian-RICII-83.jpg )

    2. The position of the gap in the obverse legend (TRAIANH-ADRIANVS) seems peculiar. I haven't found it anywhere. Usually it seems to be TRAIAN-HADRIANVS. 2CEA6678-EAF3-4EAE-B380-F1F292C43B24.jpeg
      Thanks in advance
      Kind regards,
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  3. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    Nice catch you have welcome on this forum

    Hadrian Denarius Roma 119-23 AD Felicitas standing

    Strack 111; RIC III, 221; C. 1143; RIC II, 83

    Bust A4

    Laureate bare bust with drapery

    Rev. P M TR P COS III
    Felicitas standing left, holding caduceus and cornucopia.

    18 mm
    3.09 gr


    76Hadrian .RIC83.jpg
    ominus1, Alegandron, DonnaML and 3 others like this.
  4. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    Your bust variant is not in the new RIC II part 3

    i see Bust C2 Laureate, draped, bust viewed from side/rear
    222 has bust B1 laureate cuirassed bust viewed from front
    Alegandron, Pellinore and DonnaML like this.
  5. Pellinore

    Pellinore Supporter! Supporter

    Hello Paul, welcome on CoinTalk! This merry forum counts a sizeable number of members from the Netherlands. What do you think of our venerable @Roerbakmix, a forum name only a Dutchman can think of? And I’m not only Dutch, my name is Paul, too. But I can’t help you with Hadrian, for I’m more into Provincial Romans (and many other subjects).
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
    Alegandron likes this.
  6. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    “Sorry for my English”

    man, your English is superior to the majority of Americans who use this forum!
  7. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Hey wachit i are American ya no! Welcome to CT Paul
    Pellinore likes this.
  8. Roerbakmix

    Roerbakmix Well-Known Member

    Hi @Paul_NL: that's a very recognizable denarius ;) Hope you enjoy this forum as much as I do - for ancients, it's a much better forum than the Dutch forum where we met each other just a short while ago. I mean: just look how quick you got your answer!

    ... we practically own this place :jimlad:
    ominus1, Alegandron and Pellinore like this.
  9. Limes

    Limes Supporter! Supporter

    There's a Dutch forum? Really? I had no idea!

    Welcome to cointalk Paul. Nice Hadrian! Curious to see your other coins.
  10. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

  11. Pellinore

    Pellinore Supporter! Supporter

    There is a Dutch numismatic forum, but I think it almost died. But there are several other English forums (and German!) with more specified interests. However, CoinTalk is fast and funny, the best for Roman coins for certain.
    By the way, I'd like to advise the CoinTalk World Coins forum, too.
    Roman Collector likes this.
  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    That's an interesting bust type. All three examples in the British Museum (BMCRE3 167-169 have the drapery on the left shoulder type; RSC 1143a has a radiate head, right.

    I wonder if Strack noted this bust type. @curtislclay , do you know?
    Pellinore likes this.
  13. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL New Member

    Hi @Okidoki I have a question: The categorisation of bust types that you use, like C2, B1, A4 etc., where does that come from? I can't find this in OCRE.
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