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Message:: [QUOTE="John Burgess, post: 5193939, member: 105098"]Thanks for the link and additional pictures. I'm now in the sandcasted fake category. Why someone would do it, I don't know their reasoning, maybe for practice then to move on to something more valuable? Could also be acid shrunk I'd suppose, but that's a lot of weight to lose for not a huge drop in thickness or diameter, without messing with the metal.so thinking a casted fake is more likely and maybe it's older done too. cents had a bit more value, especially in 3rd world countries in the 1970s, but also here. Maybe it spent time in Africa and circulated to italy after a couple years or something like that. No way of knowing, but if the composition is as claimed, them it's almost certainly a cast copy, made by someone melting aluminum cans and scrap copper, maybe even as a practice piece,  trying to get it close and a reasonable color. What you are trying to attribute it to, a mint error dated 1973 and an early experimental test piece than when testing occurred, is the truly long shot explanation and would require proving with provenance, because IF this coin was struck, it's seen a heck of a lot of a corrosive environment/ seemingly pitting, to the point of making details mushy, which it would not be if struck and not messed with. They weren't experimenting with copper/aluminum mixes, they were experimenting with Aluminum trying to phase out copper completely if possible. "Detecting Cast CoinsGenerally cast coins have a slightly smaller diameter that official issues because molten metal will shrink somewhat as it cools. Also, because of the filing necessary to remove excess metal, many cast coins will be more oval (out of round) that struck example. On less circulated examples file marks can sometimes be seen on the edge or occasionally a "tab" can be seen that was not filed off. Very high quality cast coins will have a smooth surface but most examples are grainy or pitted, some may even have depressions caused by trapped gas bubbles. Also, the images and lettering on cast examples frequently lack clarity, often the letters appear to be filled in. These features were not considered to be detrimental however, for they gave cast counterfeits the appearance of older well worn coins. A common trick mentioned by several numismatists was for a counterfeiter to fry a pan full of newly cast coppers in some grease left over from cooking the supper meal and thereby blacken the coins to give them a circulated look. On many of the one hundred examples in the Smith and Mossman study the authors were able to detect telltale signs of where the coin had been attached to the channel, for both the in port and the out port (or vent). They mention on the English and Irish cast coppers there was a "distinct preference" for the ports to be 180° apart as in the serial cast but they found less consistency in port locations on the cast Confederation coppers. This would seem to indicate American made molds would not always have the git and gas vent entering (or exit) the coin cavity at 180° but might place them at an angle." As far as "scam". What I mean was, "off metal" isn't some new way of prying money from novice people pockets thinking they could be hitting the lotto. If it is some collector asking a question and not looking for a buyer, that's fine, But I am skeptical of this type of thing in general especially when it's a raw coin. All in all, if someone is selling it, Again, I'm gonna advise you or anyone else not to buy it. There's just no way it's getting attributed as genuine even if it is what you think it is,  due to the pitting and no ability to trace provenance. Just as easily made in someones shed as the mint in it's current condition.I think it would be tagged as not genuine by a 3rd party grading company.[/QUOTE]

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