Lifetime Alexander the great w/Olympic torch, trident, caduceus or ATGs theory O general relativity

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    I wanted to start out by saying, don't get too excited.


    Though, you probably should. I mean I would be and am. And what I mean by that is this, this aint some sexy:kiss: Alexander tet:artist: that I had to put my house up for third mortgage :greedy:to acquire, my kids college educations are still #1 (though I may have splurged and have a ridonculous new, but slightly anciently used, coin on its way...though that is for another post). I got this lil doozy, an upgrade on one I already owned of the type for less than most joints charge for a cheeseburger. It's true! Usually I find it a bit tasteless:vomit: to share prices, unless it is a steal of a deal. Like IDK...$2.75!
    We get it, we get it. Ryro the frugal, with another bargain basement acquisition. Get to the point. Yeesh!


    ok, ok. This is one of the first types of the ever AWESOME Macedonian shield coins. And due to the BA (Βασιλιάς or BAsileus= Greek for king) we know it to be a lifetime (or shortly thereafter) issue of Alexander da GREAT. The Diadochi, Alexander's generals and immediate successors, removed the BA from this type of coinage for a couple decades after Alexander's death to show respect. Most agree that Seleucus was the first to give himself the monicor.


    Though, it wasn't long before the rest of the gang started putting the title on their coins as well, lest their followers start believing someone else's hype above theirs!

    Another very cool point about the obverse boss, the symbol on the front of the shield that the handle on the back would often attach to, is that it is of the Olympic torch!


    As you will recall, his Dad, Philip II, was so proud of getting the Macedonians involved in the Olympic games that he put his first place horse on the reverse of his coinage!


    And here we have son putting the image of the spirit of those games on his coinage.
    Pretty cool tie in.

    You've hung in with me thus far, so check out the coin:

    Alexander III the Great
    336-323 B.C. AE 17 half-unit (16 mm, 4.44 g, 10 h). Uncertain Macedonian mint, struck 325-323 B.C. (Amphipolis?). Macedonian shield; race torch on boss / Β Α / Σ Ι, Crested Macedonian helmet with cheek guards; in bottom field, trident head right to left of caduceus right, both above monogram . Price 0420. NVF,
    The race-torch - traditional badge of Amphipolis - uncommon boss, Scarce.

    Upgraded is a bit strong as I do like the obverse of the oldy better:

    Purchased from Savoca

    Talk about a busy reverse! They say, you have a trident, caduceus a monogram or 2...but what they missed:pompous: is that some 2,250 year before Albert Einstein, there was Alexander Einstein!:bookworm:


    Take a closer look at that reverse...


    Look familiar???


    I thought so as well. You see, all those years of us only giving ATG credit for conquering most of the known world he was also busy conquering physics!

    I kid, I kid. But please, post those Alexander the greats, diadochi, you know I am always down for more shield coins, wild conspiracy theories, fun coins you found on the cheap that you feel should be worth more or whatever travels from your brain to your fingers faster than the speed of Bucephalus!
    Plumbata, zumbly, Spaniard and 22 others like this.
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    LOL! I would have bought it for that alone :D.

    I like your niche, Scooby :).
  4. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Here's one from my old folders. Struck at Ampipholis circa 320 BC. Head of Heracles wearing lion skin headdress. Zeus seated and dolphin diving counter clockwise in left field. Price 133. I was very lucky to acquire it at that price, over 3 years ago.

    AlexHeracles  Price 133.jpg AlexDolphi R  Ampipholis.jpg
    Plumbata, Marsyas Mike, TIF and 6 others like this.
  5. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing Supporter

    Very insightful and belly-laughable, as always, @Ryro!!

    Macedonian Kingdom
    Alexander III (the Great)
    AE17, Circa 336-323 BC, Lifetime Issue

    Obverse: Head of Herakles wearing lion’s skin, right.
    Reverse: ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΥ, bow and quiver above, club below, K control mark in exergue.
    References: Price 301
    Size: 17mm, 5.3g
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Actually, you have wrong, @Ryro ...

    BA is for Brian Alegandron... :D

    Some of my Diadochi...


    Makedon Antigonos I Monopthalmus 319-305 BC AR Drachm Magnesia and Maeandrum Mint 3-9g 16-5mm Herakles lion-Zeus


    Thrace -Lysimachos AR Tet 14.3g 28.7mm 305-281 BCE Alexander head-Ammon horns - rev Lysimachos Athena;
    Ex: Forum Ancient Coins


    Egypt Ptolemy I Soter Tet Delta bankers marks

    Philip III Arrhedaeus & Alexander IV, 323-317 BCE
    AR Drachm, 2.595g, maximum diameter 13.0mm, die axis 270o
    Amphipolis mint
    Obv: diademed head of of Apollo right
    Rev: ΦIΛIΠΠOY, naked youth pacing right on horseback, palm frond in right, reins in left, E in wreath below
    Ref: Le Rider p. 123, pl. 45, 31 - 32; SNG ANS 621, SNG Cop -, SNG Alpha Bank -,
    Comments: VF, struck with worn dies, porous, bumps and scratches very rare
    EX: ForumAncientCoins May-2016


    Seleucid Seleucus I 312-280 BCE AR Tet 14.46g Seleucia on Tigris. Zeus - Athena driving a quadriga of 4 horned elephants SC 130
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    And, here is one of my Lifetime GREATEST, followed by a couple Lifetime Greats

    Kingdom of Makedon
    Philip II 382-336 BCE (Reign 359-336 BCE)
    AR Tetradrachm.
    Mint: Pella, lifetime issue, struck circa 353-349 BC.
    25 mm. 14.4 g
    Obv: Laureate head of Zeus right Rev: ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΥ,
    Rev: Philip on horseback left, wearing kausia and raising right hand; spearhead below, star below horse's raised foreleg.
    Le Rider 102 (D58/R82); SNG ANS 357

    Kingdom of Makedonon
    Alexander III (MEGAS) 336-323 BCE
    AR Tetradrachm
    24.5mm, 16.9g
    Lifetime Issue
    Obv: Herakles
    Rev: Zeus on big-ball throne, holding Eagle, staff; very faint trident in field l

    BABALONIA, Babylon
    AR Tetradrachm / Stater (or Dishekel)
    Minted ca. 323-328 B.C.
    24 mm, 16.3g
    Obv: Ba’al seated left holding scepter
    Rev: Lion walking left, control mark Г above. (Control mark was minted during Alexander III Lifetime)
    Ref: Ref: BMC Arabia XXII no.1
    Comment: "This type was discussed by Martin Price in his article "Circulation at Babylon in 323 BC," in the book "Mnemata: Papers in Memory of Nancy M. Waggoner." He asserts that a reengraved die clearly shows the "lion staters" with gamma followed the ones with delta. "They are probably shekels on the local standard." (page 67). He dates them to the lifetime of Alexander, because they were present in a hoard with deposition dated to 323/2. He doesn't give the earliest possible date explicitly, but mentions that Mazaeus was governor until 328 and issued coins, so I infer Price would put them at or after 328. So you can say "Struck 323 or before, under Alexander the Great."
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  8. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Supporter! Supporter

    Well, I clicked on the "Skip to the End" didn't work; which was fortuitous for me, since I was already invested in the read...& very glad I did finish. :happy:

    Yeah, Einstein's equation ...I can see it. :singing:

    But I'm always seeing things (pareidolia perhaps?) & your specimen provoked a desire for a piece of pie, I don't know maybe because the shield looks delicious??? Anyway, the only piece of pi(e) I could find here is 3.14, so I guess I'll have to go hungry. :(

    Ah, for the love of ancients....
    Ryro likes this.
  9. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    That was a fun read :)
    I've only got one Alexander III and the only conspiracy I can think of is that he was possibly patient zero for the great zombie outbreak of the 300's BC...

    Alexander III AE17.png
    Alexander III AE17
    ca 325-310 BC
    Pella Mint
    Obverse: Head of Herakles right, wearing lionskin
    Reverse: B (thunderbolt) A between a club and bowcase
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  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

  11. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Very funny post. I like how much you get out of each coin, Ryro - an attention to detail combined with a very active imagination. However, the ghost of Alexander may be haunting you tonight for that Einstein hairdo you gave him!

    This gives me an excuse to post this - it is a lifetime Alexander the Great, I think. What I find interesting is the patina - very thick, but peeled in areas, so you can see the different layers. A lot going on here chemically, I'm guessing. Brown over green over green over brown/bronze with an overall light dusting of dirt.

    Lot - 3 Macedon 1 Maroneia AE Oct 2018 (0b).jpg

    Lot - 3 Macedon 1 Maroneia AE Oct 2018 (0ax).jpg
    Macedonian King. Half Unit
    Alexander III
    (c. 336-323 B.C.)

    Head of Herakles right, with lionskin head-dress /AΛEΞANΔΡOY, between club above and quiver below; Π above.
    Price 310; Muller 1702;
    SNG Cop 1042; cf Sear 6739.
    (5.86 grams / 15 mm)
    Plumbata, 7Calbrey, Bing and 3 others like this.
  12. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    Thanks @TIF. The closer I look at it the bigger the niche becomes...[​IMG]

    Beautiful Lifetime drachm @7Calbrey! I LOVE the dolphin:snaphappy:
    Thanks @Justin Lee! I really do enjoy the sister piece to the shield coins. Great bow and club reverse! Here's a REAL belly laugh
    1. [​IMG]
      1. [​IMG]

    I am often wrong @Alegandron...though not in saying that your Antigonus is a BEAUT! But that Philip II is something to behold. Whenever I think I am going to sack up and get one I always think, "Ya, this one is nice...but it's got nothing on Gandy's!" And that Babylonian is just asking to join my collection, like, yesterday!
    @PlanoSteve you crack me up! You can take a bite out of it if you want. But it might be a bit stale:vomit:
    YEEEEUUUUSSSSSS!!! LOVE the zombie ATG @furryfrog02:kiss: Looks like while he was conquering the known world and physics, he also had to battle bronze disease. Fortunately, it looks like he won:cigar:
    You heard it hear first! @dougsmit agrees with my belief in Alexander Einstein being the real founder of the theory O relativity! jk. But seriously, that is so cool to think that the symbolism on the coin comes so close to describing the most popular equation of the last century 2,300 years after the fact!
    Copied from wiki, "The expression b2 = bb is called "the square of b" or "b squared"
    Man, @Marsyas Mike that thing is just fantastic (and thanks for the kind words)! It has his name on it and, I believe, the BA. So, I am with you on it probably being lifetime or shortly thereafter. It looks like that Patina got chipped away or maybe at some point in modern times it was dropped. But that is some thick emerald green patina. I like em thick...
  13. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Supporter! Supporter

    If I swallow it whole, I probably won't notice. :smuggrin: It's green-ish, so I'm thinking granny smith apple??? :rolleyes::p
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