Liberty Dollars

That was tried and failed although it doesn't suprise me that 'graduate student economic libertarians' still discuss it.

http://www.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/aj7/writings/veto.htm
http://facweb.furman.edu/~benson/docs/ajveto.htm

Those who ignor Alexander Hamilton simply starve.


http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/database/article_display.cfm?HHID=640

"Who was to blame for the Panic of 1837? One school of thought holds Jackson responsible, arguing that his banking policies removed a vital check on the activities of state-chartered banks. Freed from the regulation of the second Bank of the United States, private banks rapidly expanded the volume of bank notes in circulation, contributing to the rapid increase in inflation. Jackson?s Specie Circular of 1836, which sought to curb inflation by requiring that public land payments be made in hard currency, forced many Americans to exchange paper bills for gold and silver. Many private banks lacked sufficient reserves of hard currency and were forced to close their doors, triggering a financial crisis."

The auther is being kind in the second sentence.....

Ruben

 

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mrbrklyn,

I should have been more clear in my statement. Let me just say that I do
not necessarily agree with everything that I am taught in grad school. In my program, many "ideal ends" are discussed and debated without discussing the practical means of arriving at such a ends. It's always how things "ought to be," rather than "what steps do we take to improve our economy from where it is now."

I certainly do not concur with everything that gets discussed in my program, and you brought up some excellent points from history.

Anyway, I definitely would not buy Liberty Dollars simply because I would not pay over melt for their silver rounds/coins/tokens....whatever they should be called.

 

...self edited because the comment isn't appropriate to this forum. The discussion belongs in the politics forum.

 

I'm glad because I just recieved your reply by email and I immediately came here to reply. I hate when you do this because you repeatedly ignor factual information hoping nobody is sufficientlly versed in the material to catch to factual errors, or are too busy to refute them. I had already collected the raw data about the repeatedly failed gold and silver standards involved in the internation system prior to WWI, and the statement you made was clearly bogus by any and all objective metrics. If you really think that international trade has just recently passed the levels of a century ago, your off your rocker. The numbers between New York and Amsterdam ALONE surpassed the worlds complete internation trade in 1917 by 1977 by any objective standard and likely to have done so shortly after the Marshal plan.

Ruben

 

I'm only replying to this for the sake of others who might be deceived by your erroneous comments. The international gold and silver standards did not fail. Central bank manipulation and fractional reserve banking frequently failed. Also, perhaps I edited my comment too quickly for you to read, but I indicated that international trade as a percentage of economic activity was higher just before WWI than at any time until recently, and this is a correct statement. Of course dollar volumes are higher now because of currency debasement.

I don't want to contaminate this forum any further with the off-topic stuff, so I'll just encourage everyone interested to check it out for themselves and not take either one of our comments as true unless this is done.

 

Your wrong, and you have ZERO historical evidence from any reputable source.

Bring me the primary sources to and evidence, or retract this. Frankly, deny the MULTIPLE failures of the gold standard or the silver standard is no better morally than holocaust deniers.

Not a single reputable economists, Not Gilbreth, Friedman, Keynes, Volker... NOBODY would support this and it has been academically refuted as a FACT.

I don't know what your problem is, but it is really annoying.

http://www.nowpublic.com/debunking_gold_standard_myth_stability
http://www.snb.ch/en/mmr/reference/quartbul_2007_1_jpr/source/quartbul_2007_1_jpr.en.pdf

Ruben

 

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=137862

 

I read it in the email and it was COMPLETE. And you implied that the world trade has just caught up to the levels of the international system and that is a LIE. The metric you used was a LIE. Measuring world trade as a percentage of accumulated GDP's is a LIE. And since in 1917 we had an intenational Colonial System, of COURSE it is a lie.

Measured in TONAGE of materials and values of Goods and Services, AGAIN, Trade Between just NYC and Amsterdam outpaced WORLD WIDE TRADE by 1976. Worldwide world trade in Oil alone since 1917 is not even in the same maganitude.


Duh.

Ruben

 

Let me see you pay your taxes with the fake rounds. See if that works.

Ruben

 

The purpose of those Liberty Dollars is to make a political statement. It is a one way in which Americans can voice their disapproval with the government having taken us off the gold standard and printed so many unbacked paper dollars that our moneys purchasing power has diminished.

 

www.goldismoney.info ...learn about the Fed

 

I'm all for political speech, and even flag burning, but if they try to pay their taxes with those silver rounds, I'm also for them being jailed.

Ruben

 

If a nation's government colapses it's paper money becomes worthless (ie Japan, Germany, CSA, etc.). In fact, the value of said money increases and decreases greatly based on the public's speculation as to whether or not the war is going well. But a one once gold or silver coin is worth one once of gold or silver regardless of whether the nation that minted said coin will still exist tomorrow.

 

First, if the US Government collapses, I doubt you'll have any money left, silver, gold or property. I don't really want to live through that.

Secondly, this is nonsense anyway. Silver and Gold are real commeties which trade with supply and demand. The coin can never be valued sizably more than face, even over time. The attempts to control Gold and Silver markets plummet and raise with demand. You can guarantee that in the face of the kind of nuclear conflagnation which would cause the US government to collapse would put a damper on the demand for Gold and Silver...among other things.

Ruben

 

That's true and can't be disputed. Anything can be used as a means of exchange, and frequently has been throughout history. But some things [like silver] are better for fulfilling the store of value and unit of account functions of money than others things [like paper]. I only like to jump into these discussions when the suggestion is made that somehow metal backed money is inherently inferior to paper money. Any currency can be screwed up by people devious enough or incompetent enough. But all things considered, silver dollars are better than their paper counterparts.

 

Actually, money based on rare metals has been, historically, as a fact, proven to be inferior for money as nearly anything else so far thought of including Wampun. And that is why we now have an internation fiat system where all currencies are traded against each other based on the preceived health of national economies and the demand for currency for trading purposes: ie REAL currency is now to the most part based on real economic activity instead of price fixing.

Ruben

PS - BTW Wampum was made for all of North America in Brooklyn by the Lempe Indians, making NYC the center of Banking in North America for nearly 2000 years.