Liberty Dollars, NORFed & the FBI opinion on possession

To everyone who offered thanks, you're all welcome. Just trying to help the community.

Hey Guy, I'm not sure how what you said relates to what I posted. The agent said it's completely legal to own the "receipts," as he termed them. Also, to the point of scrips... those have their own law which allows for their existence and distribution. It has to do with being used for a specific purpose as a marker of sorts. I'm assuming it's a similar rationale for why the government chose not to prosecute the notes.

As to the question by another member about the coin being spent for gas... if you were the party that accepted the coin for gas, at face value (or whatever NORFed's formula was), then you broke the law. If you purchased the coin from the person who accepted the coin for gas, at previously established value, you broke the law. HOWEVER, if you purchased the coin for the bullion or collector value, then that's okay. At least, that's what I'd think. I really don't feel like calling the FBI just to figure out the multitude of scenarios.

As for selling them... again, the Agent qualified his response in saying that he's not giving legal advice, but he said that someone selling them would probably want to have a long disclaimer notice accompanying the sale. My assumption is that the government would look on that situation as one in which you tried your best to assist the government in prevention of distribution as currency.

The point that floirdatinman (sic) made about states' decisions to allow bullion for payment contradicting the use of these rounds in commerce being illegal seems a bit misplaced. States aren't saying monetized (with denomination) rounds are to be accepted at face value, rather they're saying that bullion will be accepted in payment. That said, I wonder how state agencies will deal with conflicts that are born from the existence of second-hand precious metals statutes. Just a curiosity... not intending to spur any sort of debate.

If anyone else wishes to contact the government officials in charge of the case, the United States Attorney's office number is: (704) 344-6222 . (This is from an official announcement from the Charlotte office -- http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel11/ce031811.htm -- of the FBI.)

 

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That was excellent research and unselfish time spent to help clarify this issue for the board. It is always welcomed and appreciated. I have several of these pieces and I will just keep them for the novelty and the conversation.

 

IMO there is no legal US currency. Federal Reserve notes are a scam and the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was done in the dead of night during Christmas when only a handful of Senetors were present (All JP Morgan shills). The only legal money out there today is specie and unfortunatly the highest denomination is only a dollar (Sacajewea). If you want to hurt the FED (revenuer's) use only Sac's. that is what I do, whenever possible. No serial numbers, no spies.

 

Actual research, time invested, results shared, sources cited: this should be an example to us all.

 

If you think the feds won't go after your coins, think again. I personally know of the feds targeting coin collections for theft. And, if they find you have a NORFED coin, do you not think they would seize and confiscate your entire collection, stating simply : coins are also used in the terrorist drug trade. They are also using the "Drug traffickers are all terrorists, set to undermine our society and system of governance" rationalle to importune searches of folks whose only real crime is living indoors and collecting odd coins like NORFED issues, which I love but steer clear of for obvious reasons.. Moreover, more than 60 percent of all sneek and peek searches involve the DRUG trade, and not terrorists (as they used to be viewed), and NOT terrorists. Every inch of forward progress this nation made in securing our homes from the actions of Imperialists like the British in the 1600's was lost to George Bush and his lies about 911, the Patriot Act, and his signing statements, where he declared himself the new madman in town. Stay AWAY from anything NORFED, and maybe they will stay out of your home and not steal your coins, or....maybe not, Brothers.

 

Vote totals show that at least 68 of the 95 Senators were present, that's 72% of them. Pretty big handful. (and if they were all J P Morgan shills why was the vote 43 to 25?) And the act had been debated for months. they knew it was coming up for a vote and they probably knew when it would be voted on. They said the same kind of things about the coinage act of 1873. The Crime of 73! Rushed through in secret with no debate! It was debated for over two years and published in its entirety at least four times. Don't like a law, claim it was passed by unethical methods.

 

Some good info ...

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/03/28/2179580/liberty-dollar-producer-found.html

http://rg.ancients.info/guide/counterfeits.html

 

“Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.” ~Baron M.A. Rothschild

The Federal Reserve is a private entity. So why does a private banking entity get to call the shots and charge the U.S. Government an interest rate? Before the FED Reserve act of 1913, the Government alone had to power to print and issue coins and currency, being in debt to nobody. This is also one of the reasons for the civil war that is not talked about. The same issue came up then. England and France wanted Lincoln to borrow, he was against it, and didn't want the States to be in debt. One of his advisors, ( I forget who) suggested he print coins and currency, and so he did. I realize this is a very elementry explanation. In any case the U.S. was not in debt to any country and still maintained the power to coin and issue currency. That is until Christmas 1913. HAPPY NEW YEAR!


Until this point, only “Congress shall have power… to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof” (Article 1, Section 8, US Constitution). President William Taft vowed to veto any legislation which had to do with establishing a central bank. Thus, Woodrow Wilson was elected President in 1912, due to the splitting of the Republican Party vote through money poured into the election funds of Teddy Roosevelt and the Progressive Party by JP Morgan and Co. (1) Many, however, believe that Wilson did not have many individual thoughts credited to his name, and instead it was his cheif advisor, Colonel Edward House, who guided Wilson through the creation of the Federal Reserve, and the income tax, as well as many other socialist ideals gathered through the writings of none other than ....Karl Marx.

 

Thank you for looking into this Conder! I have a distaste for individuals sensationalizing things with no historical backdrop. Though, I'm fairly certain (given the context of the statement) that Ripley was making a joke...

 

It's easy to run afoul of Poe's law.

 

So, if someone wanted to hand you a stack of 10,000 Federal Reserve Notes, you'd refuse to take them, right? What you said is edited !

 

NorFeds

SO, what would be the status of counterfeit Liberty Dollar?

 

I don't know. Maybe violation of the Hobby Protection Act.

 

Wow, I hear a little bit of Tea Party attitude there, you go girl! That's exactly part of what motivated Von NotHaus in the first place. Promotion and ego is what got the dude in trouble, I'm just sayin'!!

 

Selling Liberty Dollars these days can not be illegal.

Market price is always well above the face value. Nobody is going to buy them at above face value (market) and try to pass them off to buy things at face value. It would mean losing money with every transaction. Stupid. And not likely.

The incentive to use Liberty Dollars as "current money" is gone.

The thing to do [anyway] when selling, is to make sure the buyer knows that this is not legal tender. That is just plain common sense and honesty. It will also serve to cover your a**.

If there ever comes a time when Liberty Dollars sell for less than face value, then we have a potential problem. The seller can be accused of distribution of counterfeit with intent to profit. The buyer is committing the main crime by passing them into circulation and the seller is an accomplice. Then your "cover your a**" strategy had better be good. In my opinion, I think this scenario will be unlikely in the forseeable future.

 

Thank you NorthKorea for your posts.

The first was very informaive and started this forum.

The second one was OK but I disagree with one major point. The post implies that it can be illegal to buy Liberty Dollars. There is no scenario where buying them would be illegal. Nor is mere possession illegal.

What is illegal, is attempting to circulate them as common money. If you don't actually put them into circulation, but you help someone who does, then you are implicated in the crime. That's where SELLING can be tricky.

Possessing - the subject of this post - is legal. You can possess counterfeit.
Buying - is ok
Selling - ok with disclosure. I wonder if selling above face value would automatically prove that the sale was intended as a collectible - not for circulation.

 

I think selling them over face value would go along way in proving your intent. However, if the disclosure statement is also required by law, then it still needs to be done. I don't know if the agent that suggested it was quoting the law or not. I would guess this would be the same for all counterfeit currency and not just NORFED. Perhaps NorthKorea could clarify that.

 

I just bought one on eBay for $45. For 1 oz of .999 silver that really isn't much more than you'd pay for an ASE.

 

My NORFEDS.

 

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