Did anyone watch the auction today? I've been online a lot today and had the auction open and watching in another window and it just continues to boggle me at how much ancients are going for. Even some of the most common coins are going for 4x - 5x more than usual. I am reading in some of the facebook groups that few are thinking of selling while the market is still hot.
FFIVN and I have been out on a boy scout hike most of the day. I looked at the listings prior to the auction and considered myself priced out right away haha. I like that there seems to be an increased interest in ancients but at the same time, I don't like it because it's making it hard for bottom-feeder collectors like me to be able to add new pieces to FFIVN and my collection.
You have to remember that some auction houses, like Leu, are playgrounds for the rich. When you've got money to burn, it's no big deal to bid 4 or 5 times market value. And that doesn't necessarily mean collectors of modest means are going to be willing to pay big premiums for common coins. The weather's still fine down here in the trenches.
The Leu prices were ridiculous, but this Aureo & Calico auction was even worse: what looks like a nice but standard Roscius Fabatus denarius with Juno Sospita and a maiden and snake on the reverse, estimated at 400 Euros, sold for 10,000 Euros!! https://www.sixbid.com/en/aureo-calico/8843/monedas-romanas-roman-coins/7448042/hacia-64-a-c-gens-roscia?term&orderCol=lot_number&orderDirection=asc&priceFrom&displayMode=large&auctionSessions=9787|358971&sidebarIsSticky=false&fbclid=IwAR1BPfTSc8kqZkdwK9MCM_oFFSNsiMTyxEKXi4ZSS6ktRzfJUrHu3Zy_HXY I don't get it.
A similar example sold at the Leu auction for 1,600 CHF, which is itself an exorbitant price in my opinion, but not so ridiculously high as to be suspicious. https://www.biddr.com/auctions/leu/browse?a=2016&l=2220618
I can maybe understand something going for 4x the estimate. Stupid and a waste of money? Probably Money laundering? Maybe not. But something going for 25x the estimate? Either the buyer is S.T.U.P.I.D. or something else is going on. Just my 2 cents...which is an estimate so please feel free to take it at 25x face value
Money laundering is a real possibility. I've always thought modern art auctions were money laundering schemes - after all, who in their right mind would pay millions of dollars for some of that sophomoric crap? Maybe it's seeped into the world of coins?
I already made a reply about that last month with manipulation/laundering in the video game auction segment. So coin is a real possibility. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/another-shocker-at-heritage-last-night.385730/page-2#post-7870497 And the PCGS boards have been thinking of the same for a few months too. Oh well, I enjoy being the earthworm in the dirt but it's nice to come out for some sun and look at the sky.
Yeah, I got blown out of the water as well Not that I was going to buy them, but these two small fish, compared to the gold that I wasn't even watching, caught my eye as being obscene (probably won't get near your money back when it's time to sell): ★ From the collection of H.C. Ernst Justus Haeberlin, Cahn & Hess, 17 July 1933, 595 ★ L. Philippus, 113-112 BC. Denarius (Silver, 19 mm, 3.89 g, 12 h), Rome. Head of Philip V of Macedon to right, wearing diademed royal Macedonian helmet adorned with two goat horns; behind, monogram of ROMA; below chin, Φ. Rev. Equestrian statue, holding laurel branch, set to right on raised tablet inscribed L•PHILIPPVS; below horse, a flower; in exergue, mark of value. Babelon (Marcia) 12. Crawford 293/1. RBW 1132. Sydenham 551. A beautifully toned coin with a fine portrait and an excellent pedigree. The reverse struck slightly off center, otherwise, nearly extremely fine. From the collection of Regierungsrat Dr. iur. Hans Krähenbühl, ex Münzen & Medaillen AG 52, 19-20 June 1975, 314, and from the collection of Justizrat Dr. iur. et phil. H.C. Ernst Justus Haeberlin, Cahn & Hess, 17 July 1933, 595. This is the first Republican coin to portray a historical figure, namely Philip V of Macedon (221-179 BC), who signed a treaty of friendship in 183 BC with the moneyer's ancestor Quintus Marcius Philippus, the consul of 186 BC. 1933 pedigree is cool but selling for, before buyers fees and shipping, 2,600 CHF, I purchased mine for under a tenth of that And though I am in awe of this, possibly the best reverse of a wildly popular and personal fav coin (check out the cheeks on the nude Celtic warrior) type and a very handsome portrait, 24,000 CHF(which is equal to 4 and 1/2 divorces) on a 10 CHF estimate seems a smidge bonkers ★ Perfectly centered and among the finest known ★ L. Hostilius Saserna, 48 BC. Denarius (Silver, 17 mm, 3.64 g, 12 h), Rome. Draped male bust (Vercingetorix?) with wild hair and long plaited beard to right; cloak around neck and Gallic shield behind. Rev. L•HOSTILIVS - SASERN Nude Gallic warrior, holding shield in his left hand and hurling spear with his right, standing left in a galloping biga being driven to right by a seated charioteer holding a whip. Babelon (Hostilia) 2. Crawford 448/2a. CRI 18. RBW 1569. Sydenham 952. Perfectly centered and in exceptional condition for the issue. A superb example struck on excellent silver and undoubtedly among the finest known. Very minor die rust on the obverse, otherwise, good extremely fine. From the collection of Regierungsrat Dr. iur. Hans Krähenbühl, ex Numismatica Classica FPL 7, March 1982, 485. The bust on the obverse of this issue has long been identified as that of Vercingetorix, the famous chief of the Arverni and Caesar's greatest foe in his conquest of Gaul. There is no clear evidence for this and the image most likely serves as a personification of the defeated Gaul in general, but the individuality of the portrait does suggest that it was modelled after a specific person. Vercingetorix, who was the most famous Celtic prisoner of war and who was incarcerated in Rome until his execution in 46 BC, seems the most likely candidate. Best I can do is my fourré. Lacking the incredible reverse of the other, it had just the portrait I was looking for:
Forget real original art, how about the tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars people are spending on crypto "art" in the form of NFT's -- supposedly non-fungible digital images (or videos) that in fact are unique only in name, are not "original" or exclusive in any sense (since they're just images of images), do not come with copyright ownership, and only dubiously deserve the name of "art."
Money laundering? I think that's pretty unlikely. Some auction houses attract stronger bids. There are still deals to be found. Harder now, yes, but there are still good deals. Don't look at CNG, Kunker, Leu, NAC, Heritage. Look elsewhere.
I can understand why someone might pay a lot of money for an original, signed limited-number print of a photograph that was actually developed by the photographer himself or himself. After all, every such print is in fact unique, in a very real sense. Not so with a digital image of an image, from which anyone can generate a 100% identical digital image.
10,000 Euros at Aureo & Calico for a coin for which 1,500 Euros would be an extremely high price? That's more than a "stronger bid." And Aureo & Calico isn't Leu.
This isn't as much of a shocker to me. The Haeberlin pedigree always commands a premium and this is not an average coin with a nice pedigree but a well struck example on excellent metal with beautiful toning with a pedigree to one of the top RR collections ever formed. It's expensive but it's not completely surprising.
