Featured Let's talk about the Netherlands gold ducats

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They are, it depends on their condition and/or rarity. This is is not XF or better condition nor a rare date, as a result you have got a pretty correct Doug's estimated value: ca. $400.

In a few days I will write here a bit about "similar" ducats worth a dozens times more. With an explanation of their prices.

Anyway, that's nice to see such a ducat here Congratulations!

 

Hi Giladzuc, can you write me a little bit more about this coin (this example)?

 

It’s not a fresh news, however it’s worth to be mentioned here. Many of you are interested in collecting modern strikes of the Dutch gold ducats. And these coins are still minted in The Netherlands, every single year (single and double gold ducats).

The latest ducats, minted in 2015 extended tradition of minting Dutch ducats. Probably you know that, but to remind you the first single gold ducats of the Dutch type were minted by the United Provinces in 1586. This years it will be 430th anniversary of minting this coin type! What's even more important - in this time period they were minted with almost unchanged design!

The first double ducats of the Dutch type were minted by the Overijssel provincial mint in 1607. Until 1740s they were minted in a low numbers.

Nowadays single and double gold ducats are still minted, to demand collectors needs. I do support this idea, and I also encourage you to acquire some of them. But it seems that demand on these coins is not so high, because the amount of double gold ducats minted by The Royal Mint in Utrecht was reduced again.

Two years ago (or actually 3, but they were minted by the autumn every year), in 2013 mintage was 2,500 pcs (max.). Mintages of the 2014 ducats were expected to be max. 1,000 double ducats and 1,500 single ducats. In September 2014 The Mint announced that mintages was reduced significantly – only 850 double ducats and 1,010 single ducats with the date of 2014 were minted.

In 2015 reductions of these mintages continue. According to the The Royal Mint announcement, the mintage of the 2015 double ducats is 801 pcs. only. This is the smallest number since 1860’s, when a very limited amounts of the double ducats were minted.

Source: KNM.nl (The Dutch Royal Mint website) You may find a direct links to articles on this website within my text above.

The Netherlands 2015 double ducat (obverse)​

 

As I announced already,

I would like to share with you an information about the special set of the Dutch coins. It's not special just because the average price of a single coin exceed $15,000, but also because of the great history of each coin in the set.

I've decided to make a new thread for it, so you may follow it here: The set of 4 Netherlands ducats sold for over $60,000. Feel free to ask and comment there.

 

It was told that Dutch gold Ducats are made from gold that mined or found in the Netherlands Indies. But although Krause catalog of 1996 (1801-1995) edition referred the gold Ducats to Indonesia , they are listed in Netherlands listing , since no Indonesian sign on the common examples. This coin https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/jawa_countermarked_zeealnd_gold_ducat_1753-jpg.462608/ is the first ever that I know about , that actually authenticates the Indonesian reference of any old real Dutch gold Ducat , because it bears a countermark in Malay in "Tulisan Jawi" which is an Arabic script with added 6 letters distincts to Malay / Indonesian. As a Malay / Indonesian speaker , I saw it in Facebook in a group of Indonesian coins collectors. now I know that the coin is one of few types of gold coins ever used in Netherlands Indies. I kept the picture , so I will be able to identify and buy the coin if I will ever see It , and the price will be affordable for me.

 

I just bought the book. Mine will be autographed. I am looking forward to it. Also, at $170, the commitment was more serious than the $39.95 you can plunk down for a Whitman. However, Doug sent me these links:

http://goldducats.com/about-ducats/the-coin-for-trade/
http://goldducats.com/about-ducats/pre-provincial-ducats/
http://goldducats.com/about-ducats/provincial-ducats/
http://goldducats.com/about-ducats/imitations-and-forgeries/
http://goldducats.com/the-book/the-research/
http://goldducats.com/the-book/book-preview/

Personally, I think that they give too much away, but with 700+ pages, showing a dozen is not egregious, I suppose.

I was greatly impressed by the information presented on the website and I am champing at the bit to read the book.

The only ducats I owned were modern restrikes.

Mike M.

 

AN IMPORTANT PHRASE TAKEN FROM http://goldducats.com/about-ducats/imitations-and-forgeries/ ABOUT THE USAGE OF AN IMITATED DUTCH GOLD DUCAT , MINTED IN WARSAW , POLAND BY POLISH REBELS , DURING THE REBELLION OF 1831 , USING WARSAW MINT MARK.

 

Well, that's good at start! Some dates of modern ducats are very interesting, e.g. 1817 ducat - one year type with a "mummy" mintmark. You may see this coin here.

 

The Polish 1831 Uprising ducats of the Dutch type are very special coins. There is only 163,025 pcs minted in 2 years (1831-32), a number of them was melted down. Of all the rest it is difficult to find a really mint condition piece.

The Polish Uprising ducats are minted in 3 varieties:
1. with a dot before torch in the legend
2. with a dor after torch in the legend
3. without a dot before nor after torch

Without a dot is a scarce variety, it look like this: http://www.mcsearch.info/record.html?id=358119 (by the way, this coin was sold for $6,139, incl. Premium). A variety with a dot after torch is here: http://www.aukcjamonet.pl/archive.php?id=171&content=product&category=73 (sold for $4,502). The last variety, with a dot after torch is here http://www.aukcjamonet.pl/archive.php?id=2248&content=product&category=205 (sold for $2,657) or here http://www.aukcjamonet.pl/archive.php?id=1177&content=product&category=138 (sold for $2,285).

As you see, better condition copies of this type are pretty expensive The last thing is that you may find this ducats minted with two different (scarce and more common) eagle mintmark shapes. Both of them are genuine.

The eagle mintmark was minted (instead of the Caduceus) in these coins to distinguish them from the Utrecht strikes. This is why we call them imitations. Russians minted similar dates without changes in design, because they wanted to make impression that these ducats were genuine Utrecht strikes. Therefore we call them forgeries.

 

Derek,
Thanks for starting this discussion and Doug thanks for moderating it. It is has been added to my favorite web addresses.

As of this post I still have not received my copy of the book. I'm anxiously awaiting it and I have a few questions but will ask after looking through the book. I should get it in a day or so.

For those that haven't been here awhile, Doug introduced me to the Ducat on this site back in 2005 and I now have 15 Netherland Ducats (25 Total - All countries) in my collection. I even have one from Doug's personal collection, a 1724 Utrecht in mint state from the Akerendam Shipwreck Salvage in 1972 !


He has always shared his knowledge with me and years ago introduced Derek to me. Derek and I shared a few emails regarding Ducats years ago and low and behold look at where he has taken his curiosity .. now arguably the foremost expert on the subject

Congratulations to you Derek and of course Doug.

 

This book saved me a lot of money on the bourse floor. I attended the "World's Fair of Money" ANA convention in Dallas, Texas, March 1-5, 2016. Of the approximately 300 dealers, about 15-20 were designated as "non-US" in other words, "World Numismatics" which included ancients as well as modern issues. By asking around, I found about a dozen examples of Netherlands gold ducats. According to this book,none that was offered was genuine.

The basic question is the difference between a genuine issue and an imitation in good metal. I accept that the coins offered were acceptable imitations, intended to pass for genuine based on weight and fineness alone.

However, the fact remains that none of the coins at the ANA convention offered by a dozen dealers was, in fact, attributable.

 

After exchanging emails with Darek, I learned that I was misunderstanding his catalog and his intentions. I went to the library and got an older edition of Friedberg and checked a recent SCWC. Most of the coins that I saw on the bourse floor were accurately described. I put Darek in touch with one of the dealers because he wanted to get an image of one with a variant reverse.

 

Now that I know a little more, I am more confident about buying an older one. But a ducat is a ducat.


Ah! 400th Anniversary.

 

Ok .. a few new Ducats added to the Crown Collection today both rare. With these I'm trying to expand my mint (cities/provinces) coverage within my ducat collection. Both of these being the first in my collection.

Netherlands (Overijessel) 1607
NGC MS61


Netherlands (Zwolle) 1646
NGC MS 61

 

Here is my AV Florin (Dukat) from William V (the Insane) Comte De Hollande 1350-89 The Hague Mint
He was called the "Insane" or "Mad" since at a banquet back in Bavaria he sliced of a fellow Knights head with his sword, after that same man had made a crude remark about the Count. John

 

My congratulations, Conrad! You are on the good way to create an excellent collection of gold ducats. I like both, especially the Zwolle copy. Details of the Emperor's face are outstanding!

 

I am also impressed with your coin. Dutch florins are not the main subject of my interests at the moment , however I'd like to say it's uncommon to see a coin minted in the 14th century in such condition. The Count "Insane" looks fantastic on this coin!

 

Thanks! You are correct, most of the time these old Florins are so worn, hard to read the legend, see details. Same for my home City of Koln (Cologne) the goldgulden are always VF or less. I have been looking for a early dated Goldgulden from Frankfurt/Nordlingen/Hamburg/ Deventer in mint state, no luck. My have to settle for a EF. I saw a Cavalier d'or from Countship of Holland/Phillip Le Bon in FDC, but bidders drove the price up to 15,000 euros. It always comes down to $.