"Let's Make A Deal " Paddy Contest

Noost thats what I have heard.....but the finial product what I have seen is well worth both! But again it's in the eye of the beholder! Thanks

 

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this is a place that ive loved to go camping at since i was 3. it is near the top of kaiser pass and has excellent fishing.

 

Paddy, make me some cajun catfish!

 

You want fries with that or rice & Beans?:eat:

 

Benj, That picture looks very similar to a place I used to rent in Big Bear California. I sure do miss that place!

 

Nice post Ben....what about the gold Bar?
any news yet or did I miss something?

 

the cost is a little high,but the most important factor when starting up a new salt environment is patience.
If you fail to let it properly set up and dump a bunch of fish in a new system they will most likely end up dying.Many people make this mistake and waste alot of money.
Just get a couple of the cheap fish to start out with like some damsels.
If your just doing fish the cost is not that bad,but corals on the other hand is where it gets pricey.

 

yea about my bar it was a replica of one found in arizona a couple years ago and there was no gold in it.

 

Thanks. Mine's just a basic 38 gallon with no sump that I've had for probably 6 years now. I haven't upgraded because of the increased cost.

The cost is bad when totaled together but not that bad if spread out over several years. Some stuff you need up front. You can get a basic tank with regular glass (is green when looking at the edges) or you can opt for the better starphire glass that's all the rage. It's low iron, high $ but is perfectly clear. No green when looked at from the edge.

Great deals can be had buying used stuff from people getting out of the hobby. Your main costs would be the initial tank and stand of course, and sump if you wanted one. For example, I would really like to get a 45 gallon Oceanic Tech cube. They have starphire glass front panels. Tank & stand = around $575.

Next big expense is lights. Initial cost is high. My 36" Tek 4-bulb T-5 unit w/individual reflectors was $300. That's as cheap as it gets. The bulbs are $80 a year to replace them. You can easily spend over a grand on a lighting system. Metal halide bulbs are 70-100 dollar a piece. All bulbs need to be replaced annually, minimum because the spectrum goes out of them, even though they still light up. They go bad.

Next big expense is a protein skimmer. They are basically an acrylic tube fed by a water pump that mixes air with water from the tank that creates fine bubbles that rise up to a collection cup. The bubbles make foam and you have foam refraction, which keeps your water really clean and clear. Once in a while you have to dump dark green water out of the cup and clean it. These run anywhere from $200 up to $7,000 plus, depending on the size and quality you want. Median price for a very good one is usually around $600.

Then you need substrate sand. $20 bucks a bag. Live rock to build rock structure with (rock from the ocean containing live bacteria) costs on average 5 to 7 dollars a pound. Several hundred for rock is typical.

$40 will get you a 5 gal. bucket of salt that will mix up 160 gallons of salt water. Oh yeah. Most of us would recommend the first thing to get is a RO/DI unit and a tub to store the water in. Tap water normally has high TDS and phosphates added by cities, which grows algae. RO/DI units will make 0 TDS water for you to use. A good RO/DI unit like the one I got can be had for $200.

Then I've got a controller that runs the lights, pumps, heater, etc... That was $260. Then I've got an auto-top off that I would highly recommend, which tops off the tank as water evaporates so you don't have to do it every day. Major pain without it. That was a couple hundred used. $300 new.

Then I've got about $300 in test kits. Probably around $1500 in livestock. The most I ever paid for a small piece of coral was $260.00. And it got a brown slime disease and died.
But they can be much, much higher for premium 'Limited edition', named stuff with lineage. Median cost for a piece of common, average coral is 40-60 dollars. The cheapest fish are $10 a piece. $20 on average. But $100+ fish are common. Deals can be had from fellow hobbyists and frag swaps. Pet shops are much higher.

Throw in filter media, RO/DI filters, bulbs, pH probe, pumps,heater, test kits, food and cleaning supplies, and the initial cost is quite high. But honestly, I can go months without spending anything on the tank at all. Buying in bulk is your best bet.

So basically, if you wanted to do it, there's no sense thinking that a grand would cover everything and you're done. That would be a good start, essentially. FWIW, you can grow stuff out and sell it as time goes one. You don't recoup all your cost of course but you do get some back. I sold $400 worth of pieces last month and I don't even notice the stuff missing. But as you can see, it's not free money. HTHs.

P.S. The die hard 'reefer's around this country and around the world, easily have 20-30k in their aquariums and have huge electric bills. My little set up tacks about 7 bucks a month on to mine. But when you start running 3 to 8, 400 watt metal halides, electric bills become a major factor. Then if you lose electricity, you better have a generator available if it's going to last more than a day or if there's extreme temps. Power outages are basically everybody's worst nightmare. That's the only concern I have with it.

 

Yeah, I should have mentioned this as well. Good advice. Most people that dive into the hobby want to spend the absolute bare minimum on equipment and what's actually needed and then will blow ALL of their disposable income on livestock because it looks cool. I've seen it time and time again. Nobody wants to spend anything on equipment. They just want every neat looking fish they can find. Then they cram them into an aquarium that's too small, they fight and they die anyway. The money's gone.

Clown fish can live happily in a 10 gallon tank by themselves. They don't move very far in the wild anyway. They don't venture far from their host anemone. Other fish should have a 6 ft. tank minimum for swimming space or they should not be purchased. Most fish are very territorial so it takes some time to figure out what will live together without fighting. When they get stressed, they get diseased and die.

 

someone pick me up off the floor no fish for me....I'll stick to my coin habit and the dog...the dog cost a life time aveage of $ 70 K as for the coins that top secret as the wife might read this and I'll be in the dog house...and can't afford to buy another one for the pooch!:bigeyes: Which by the way was a lie as the dog has over 5 beds in this house including mine! Was thinking of putting my self up for rescue.....but with my luck I last to day #10 in the pound and someone with a big needle be comming for me ! Run Paddy run.....

 

So I guess there's no need to expand the discussion into chillers? :mouth: Yet another little known piece of equipment that possibly can come with the hobby if you need it. You need to maintain a temp around 78-82 degrees consistantly. Warming the water up is cheap and easy. But halides and pumps can produce a great deal of heat which can push your water temp too high. Cooling it down = $$$. Most try to get by with temp controlled fans if they can.
If fans aren't enough, several manufacturers have remedied that by developing these little mini-friges that you pipe water to and through from your system and back. They're rated in horsepower from 1/10th up to 1-1/2! 1 horsepower is 745 watts. Size depends on your water volume and lights. Typically the guys running all the halides have to use one of these as well. Chillers cost anywhere from $400-$1500. And I've heard of electric bills running from 5 to 900 dollars a month when it's hot out, believe it or not. That's really, really, extreme but that's like a 225 gallon in Houston,TX, with insane halide lighting, being cooled via chiller.

I don't know. Thought you might find that interesting as well. Most people don't know such things exist. Sorry for side tracking your thread!

Edit: For as much as we're worried about energy conservation these days, it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually ban reef tanks over a certain size. You have to insulate a lot of old houses to make up for one man's $900 a month electric bill!!

 

no problem on the thread issue ...it's all good to learn about something you don't have any knowage about. I was glad to get the data from you and seeing your tanks. There could be others who saw your post and thought they might like a tank instead of a dog or cat...the cost of pets is really high.... I know when we travel the cost to kennel Lucky for a week or more....gee but if you think about the pleasure they bring you...it's priceless! Thanks for your post and I am glad now I have some understanding of your hobby. Regards Paddy

 

This is my favorite shot of my tank so far. This is in tip top shape in Oct. 2007. Most everything there is still in it but bigger now. The plating monti caps mounted by magnets on the far end glass are about 5" around now and plating nicely. Not chips anymore! At the front bottom corner is an urchin I had. I had to sell him because he kept picking stuff up and knocking things over. The anemone and clowns in the first pic are at the far end. Much smaller at that time. There are also 3 large serpent star fish in there from Florida that hide out in the rocks.
This is just a 38 gallon and considered to be very small by hobby standards. FWIW, I haven't focused on the hobby very much at all since I got back into coins. Nowadays, I occasionally sell pieces of coral to help purchase coins!

 

ONLY 10 days left enter now...would love to see some more vacation/fishing pic's..as well as pets and coins.The contest ends 9/15/09 enter today!

 

OK Paddy, here's my entry. Our new family dog Chewy and an Australian Lunar 2006 Diamond Eye Dog Kilo Silver Coin (compliments of our friends at the Perth Mint)

 

at last

:high5:
Paddy the last two week's here was one wet day after day so today first dry day got a pic of my nephew shetland pony him and my son who is both 12 spend many a day on bebe she is a 4 year old mare and is in foal will let you know when she foal's my brother has no place for to keep it so we have it in my father back garden he has a nice bit of space
The coin you have seen before
Dave

 

Ok! I think I found something I can enter - I just have the take a pic of the coin.

Speedy

 

i think were alike

I think were ilke on this one
I had the coin frist
Dave

 

Chewy as in chewbacka? Ken are you a old Star Wars fan? I knew you had a lightsaber in your closet !encil: "May the Schwartz be with you !" :bow: OH cute pooch by the way....