Let's have some fun fouree while/ Plated pile on!

I received this fun little fouree with a very neat depiction of Athena in a lot I picked up a while ago. The problem: the reverse has nearly none of it's candy coated shell and is all the chocolate underneath.
I was twirling it upside down and rightside up, and was happy to find (I believe) that it's depicting Herakles choking out the Nemean lion!

11 mm 1.2 gr

I recall these types come from Taras as well as Herakleia. Here is my dinger with less detail then the fouree!

LUCANIA, Herakleia

433-330 BCE. AR Diobol (.7 gm, 10mm). Head of Athena right, wearing Corinthian helmet decorated with hippocamp / Herakles kneeling right, head facing, wrestling with the Nemean lion;

Whadya think? Did I nail the ID?

Aaand for funzies, moree fourees along with their solid counterparts!!!


THRACE, Chersonesos
386-338 BCE AR Plated Hemidrachm Forepart of lion right,head left / Quadripartite incuse square with alternating raised and sunken quarters; VE monogram to right in opposite sunken quarters. BMC –; McClean 4117; Weber 2415; SNG Copenhagen 830.



THRACE, Chersonesos.
Circa 386-338 BC. AR Hemidrachm (11mm, 2.26 g). Forepart of lion right, head reverted / Quadripartite incuse square with alternating raised and sunken quarters; pellet over AΓ monogram and cicada in opposite sunken quarters. McClean 4096 (described as fly); SNG Copenhagen –; SNG Berry 503. Good VF, minor porosity.


Illyria
(appears plated) c. 250 - 30 BCE - Cow Suckling Calf w/ owl in the top right - Reverse: Square with double Stellate Pattern - Silver Drachma



ILLYRIA. Dyrrhachion. Drachm (Circa 229-100 BC) Zoilos and Zopyros, magistrates.
Obv: ZΩIΛOΣ.
Cow standing right suckling calf; above, head of Helios; to right, owl.
Rev: ΔYP ZΩΠYPOY.
Double stellate pattern within linear borders.
BMC 72. VF
Weight: 3.2 g.
Diameter: 19 mm

Please pile em on if you have fourees/plated coins! And bonus points if you have the solid version of that coin!

 

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From my collection

Gordian III
Rome 238 AD (Plated)

 

Very nice examples...

Here is my favorite fouree .. I have not yet been able to find a legit version of the coin within my price range but I would certainly like to find one someday.

 

I pulled this one out of my archives, but don't remember who the lucky owner is .

 

Great group of rip-offs, @Ryro !

I really do not collect them, but somehow I have accreted a few...

ACHAEMENID EMPIRE:

Persia Achaemenid Empire 4th C BCE FOUREE 15mm Siglos Persian hero-king in running incuse

 

I got four fourrées in my collection. The first is a particularly attractive siglos, the other three are Roman:


Achaemenid Empire, Lydia, fourrée siglos, ca. 375–336 BC. Obv: Great King kneeling left, holding dagger and bow, three pellets on chest. Rev: irregular punch. 14.4mm, 4.92g. Ref: Carradice 1987, type IV C (prototype).


Roman Republic, moneyer: Marcus Cipius M. f., fourrée denarius, 115–114 BC, Rome mint (prototype). Obv: Helmeted head of Roma r.; before, M CIPI M F upwards; behind, X. Rev: Victory in biga r., holding reins in l. hand and palm-branch tied with fillet in r. hand; below, rudder; in exergue, ROMA. 17mm, 2.95g. Ref: RRC 289/1.


Roman Republic, moneyer C. Naevius Balbus, denarius serratus (fourrée), 79 BC, prototype from Rome mint. Obv: Diademed head of Venus right, SC behind. Rev: Victory in triga right, C NAE BALB in exergue. Ref: Crawford 382/1. 16mm, 3.11g.


Septimius Severus, Roman Empire, fourrée denarius, 198–202 AD, Rome mint (prototype). Obv: L SEPT SEV AVG IMP XI PART MAX, head of Septimius Severus, laureate, r. Rev: VICTORIAE AVGG FEL, Victory flying l., holding wreath, shield to l. 17mm, 2.2g. Ref: RIC IV.1 144b (prototype).

 

These are the plated and solid versions of Cr. 141/1, a denarius of ca. 189-180 BC.

Interestingly, many of the plated versions depict a quite different bird to the solid silver versions.

Plated:

Solid:


I don't have the solid version of this Caligula denarius.


ATB,
Aidan.

 

Ah, I do have a fourrée version of the "other" Brutus denarius. The reverse is fairly corroded away, but the "Brutus" portrait has survived, more or less.

Denarius of L. Servius Rufus
Obv. L. SERVIVS RVFVS - Bare head right (Servius Sulpicius Rufus or Brutus?)
Rev. Dioscuri standing facing, each holding spear and with sword hanging from waist. Border of dots
Mint: Rome (41 or 43 BC)
Wt./Size/Axis: 2.48g / - / -
References:

• RSC 10 (Sulpicia)
• Sydenham 1082
• Crawford 515/2
• HCRI 324

Provenances:

• Ex. Kuenker e-Live Auction 51, no. 57

Acquisition: Kuenker Online sale 10-Oct-2018

Notes: Mar 15, 19 - Fourrée.
Traditionally, the obverse bust has been regarded as a portrayal of Servius Sulpicius Rufus, who lifted the siege of Tusculum in 377 BC. The portrait is very similar to that of Brutus on the infamous Eid Mar denarius.


I did once bid on a fourrée Eid Mar denarius in a CNG eAuction in 2015 and actually withdrew my bid when they emailed me to say that the coin had active corrosion and updated the picture. I wonder who bought the coin and if they managed to save it?

These were CNG's first photos - a few green spots on the obverse:


And their updated photos - spreading green on the obverse and some spots on the reverse as well:


It was in a July 2015 sale. A quick search shows it went for $4500 - I hope it was saved.

https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=289037

ATB,
Aidan.

 

I have two questions. Just as the US government changed our silver issues to clad after 1964, has any knowledgeable authority on ancient coins ever suggested that an ancient civilization would have made "official" debased coins in the same manner as seen with a fouree? And are there two accepted spellings, one British?

 

Certainly! Plenty of major civilization have debased their coinage in times of crisis. From the Athenians during the Peloponnesian war to the Roman's LRBs to the US. But fourees are a special treat from the underside of official.
Here's a favorite "modern" fouree:

 

M. VOLTEIUS M.F. ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS VOLTEIA
AR Fouree Denarius
OBVERSE: Laureate & helmeted bust of Attis right; shield behind
REVERSE: Cybele seated right in biga drawn by two lions; OQ above
Rome 78BC
2.9g, 18mm
Cr385/4; Syd 777, Volteia 4

A PLAUTIUS ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS PLANCIA
AR Fouree Denarius
OBVERSE: Turreted hd of Cybele right, A PLAVTIVS before, AED CVR SC behind
REVERSE: supplicant offerng palm-branch, camel behind; IVDAEVS before, BACCHIVS below
Rome 55 BC
18mm, 3.2g
Cr431/1, Syd 932, Hendin 741, Plautia 13

TITUS
Fouree Denarius
OBVERSE: CAES VESPAS AVG TR P COS III, Laureate head right
REVERSE: Foreparts of two capricorns springing in opposing directions, supporting round shield inscribed S C; globe below
Struck at Rome, 80/1AD
3.06g, 18mm
RIC II 357 (Titus); RSC 497

 

Subaerates (fourrées) could be in circulation for a long time without noticing anything wrong on a superficial inspection. This could favor the argument that they were also at least a semi-official coinage, because only as such the cost of producing them would have been worthwhile.

Two Augustus subaerats, both minted in Lugdunum ca. 2 BC - 4 AD:

18 x 19 mm, 3.675 g
RIC 207 (Prototype);

Ob.: CAESAR AVGVSTVS DIVI F PATER PATRIAE, Laureate head of Augustus right
Rev.: AVGVSTI F COS DESIG PRINC IVVENT, Gaius and Lucius Caesar togate, standing facing, flanking two shields and scepters, above simpulum on the r. (our l.) and lituus on the l. (our r.); in ex. C L CAESARES

​

18 x 19 mm, 3.445 g

​

 

and the solid version:
18 x 19 mm, 3.877g
RIC 207

​

 

Here are a couple of mine.

 

Weight 2.69g
Diameter 18.3mm

Imperatorial coins
L. Cornelius Lentulus Crus and C. Claudius Marcellus Denar 49 BC Chr., Army mint. the Pompeian to Apollonia in Illyria. Triskeles with winged Medusenhaupt and ears / Jupiter with eagle and lightning bundle. Cr. 445, 1b; Syd. 1029. 2.69 g .; Fine, slightly bluish tint

 

Over the years I suspect I have posted more fourree coins here than anyone and have some not shown I'm sure if I had any memory of what was shown. These are some of my favorites in no particular order:

Taras didrachm

Velia didrachm

Athens tetradrachm - The crook big name dealer that sold it to me claimed it was from the Emergency but the style is much too early. He is no longer in the coin business to the great benefit of the hobby IMHO.

Athens New Style

Larissa drachm

Persia Type II, 1/3? fraction

Arados tetradrachm

Parthian fourrees are very rare. I believe this Mithradates I drachm was overstruck on a Roman denarius and the mint did not know it was plated. I can't prove it but it makes a nice story.

Hermaios Baktria tetradrachm

Shahi jital of Khudrayaka


That is ten and all allowed by Coin Talk rules. Too bad I did not get around to the Roman ones. Maybe later?

For the record: I do not recommend buying fourrees and especially for anything approaching the price of solid coins. They are for strange specialists and cheapskates like me. Most of mine were bought back when honest dealers hesitated to sell them for any price. Investors will want to stick to solid coins slabbed in MS 5/5 5/5 plastic. I usually try only to buy decent looking ones and avoid the real ugly ones unless they are super rare.

 

@dougsmit Really amazing... I particularly like this tetradrachm - the coin as well as the story... you really should write a book. No holds barred, name names and point fingers. Bestseller guaranteed!

 

Ten Roman/Byzantines:

This one makes the list as my best fourree serrate denarius.


Caesar and Octavian - not pretty but this is a rare coin.


Also rare and one of my prettiest fourrees with litte core exposure:


Augustus & Tiberius


Claudius


I have seen photos of a few other fourree brockages but this Hadrian is my only one.


This Septimius is a mule with Caracalla reverse of what I consider charming style. I do wish it were in better condition with less patchy core. It represents about a dozen Severan period fourrees that did not make this listing.


It really seems that the person who cut this Trajan Decius die could have got an honest job. I love the style. By this late date, there was so little silver in the real thing that it would seem of little profit to make fourrees.


In the Byzantine period we get gold plated coins. This Basil II and Constantine VIII has core exposed in all the right places to be, IMHO, more attractive than a solid coin.


Finally, there are rare Byzantine plated coins with gold over a silver core. This came to me in 2014 and is the only fourree I have purchased in the last decade. I'm glad to have the ones I have but a fourree would have to be special (Caligula or Galba come to mind) to be appealing now.

 

@dougsmit
Fantastic selection.
Many see a copper core as a handicap but in my eyes these coins are just as desireable as their solid counterparts.
They are still ancient coins. They share the same history as the rest with some added intrigue about how they came to be.
If a plated coin is appealing to me then I will add it to the collection.
It’s not like we are collecting ancients for the melt value

 

Some serious heat coming from all those @dougsmit but WoWiE! That Pompey galley is wonderful!
Ok, I better share some Roman coinage!