Let's bake an archaic cake! Pile on the toppings!!!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    I need some help putting together an ancient Greek cake of archaic coins! I only have a few (and a saweet new one to share at the end) and would like to see all the different types of archaic coins you all have!
    But first I better set the table and share some ingredients...
    Now, one of the many things I've learned from ancients that I now know is that the word archaic's meaning is not simple or basic as it is most commonly used for in today's vernacular. But simply the beginning.
    It evolved into being used to describe things that were basic, as usually the beginning of things are.
    But brothers and sisters, as you know, that ain't the case with archaic Greek art and especially those wonderous archaic Greek coins!

    (Archaic Greek statues)

    Islands off Thrace. Thasos circa 525-463 BC. Obol AR, 10mm., 0,91g.
    Naked satyr kneeling right / Quadripartite incuse square.
    nearly very fine
    SNG Ashmolean 3653; Rosen 144; Le Rider Thasos Group I & pl. I, 4

    The archaic period, which no ancient Greek ever referred to it as, lasted from the eighth century BCE to about 480 BCE after those rascally Persians invaded again.

    (Ryro about to pounce on a new coin... Or more archaic art)
    1/12 Stater, 6th cent BC, Lion forepart, head l./ star pattern in square, S3532 (£65); EF, good metal quality, great detail on lion's mane, but off-ctr with his face.

    Don't get a bee in your bonnet. I'm not trying to boar you:

    Ionia. Ephesos
    circa 550-500 BC.
    Hemiobol AR
    5mm., 0,37g.
    Bee / Quadripartite incuse square.
    very fine
    Karwiese Series III; Rosen 572.

    Lesbos. Uncertain mint circa 500-450 BC.
    Obol BI
    8mm., 0,89g.
    Confronted boars' heads / Quadripartite incuse square.
    very fine
    Klein 348

    When it comes to archaic art the Greeks get pretty hard Kore
    (It's a pun aaaaand archaic art:wacky:)

    Mysia. Lampsakos
    circa 500-450 BC.
    Obol AR
    7mm., 0,77g.
    Female janiform head / Helmeted head of Athena left within incuse square
    very fine. SNG BnF 1128-31.

    Ok, ok. You've probably caught on that I'm itchin to show off my new Griffin almost as much as I am to see what coins you all post!
    With just a little further ado, here's a Griffin head from an archaic Table and then my coin!

    (How awesome must this entire table have been???)

    IONIA, Phokaia(?). Circa 6th-5th century BC. AR Hemidrachm or Diobol (10mm, 1.57 gm). Head of griffin left / Quadripartite incuse square. BMC Ionia pg. 215, 82; SNG Copenhagen -; SNG Kayhan 514; SNG von Aulock 2116 var. (seal right). Good VF, porous, small flan.

    Similar pieces with a seal behind the griffin's head are clearly Phokaian (as von Aulock 2116). Coins without the seal are possibly from Teos. Depending on the weight standard that might apply, this coin could be either a hemidrachm or a diobol.

    So please add on as many archaic coins as you can! And let's just see how tasty we can make this Greek archaic cake!
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  3. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing Supporter

    Very nice little theme, @Ryro!! I don't have many (do I even have more than 1)?

    Uncertain, Caria
    AR Tetartemorion, Circa 500-450 BC

    Obverse: Confronted foreparts of two bulls.
    Reverse: Forepart of bull right within incuse square.
    References: SNG Kayhan 949ff
    Size: 6mm, 0.13g
    cf: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1943222
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  4. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

  5. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Great coins @Ryro! I love those unique threads of yours.
    Here are some archaic coins I would like to contribute to the cake:

    First my most archaic coin that has the head of Apollo with a more than obvious archaic style (the main reason I got it).

    P.S. I can't believe people used to pay with these extremely small coins, it would get lost quite quickly??

    Ionia, Kolophon AR Hemiobol (Circa 530/25-500 B.C.)
    Archaic head of Apollo left.
    Reverse: Incuse square punch.
    Reference: SNG Kayhan 342.
    Weight: 0.30g
    Size: 6mm

    And my other favorite archaic coins:

    Ephesos, Ionia. Drachm (500 - 420 B.C)
    Bee with curved wings, EΦEΣION.
    Reverse: Quadripartite incuse square
    Reference: BMC Ionia pg. 49, 12; SNG Copenhagen 210; SNG Kayhan 140
    Weight: 3.20g
    Size: 14mm

    Ephesos, Ionia. Tetartemorion (500 - 420 B.C)
    Bee with curved wings
    Reverse: EΦ, eagle's head right within incuse square
    Reference: SNG Kayhan 126; Karwiese Series IV
    Weight: 0.20g
    Size: 6mm

    Islands off Thrace, Thasos. AR Eighth Stater / Diobol (Circa 500-480 B.C.)
    Satyr running right.
    Reverse: Quadripartite incuse square.
    Reference: SNG Cop-191ff; Le Rider, Thasiennes 4; HGC 6, 333.
    Weight: 1.03g
    Size: ?mm
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  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Nice coins, pics, and write-up @Ryro ! Makes for some fun!


    Makedon Alexander I 498-454 BCE AR Obol 10mm 0.75g Horse - Quadripartite incuse sq SNG ANS 32 Rare

    KOLCHIS (Land of the Golden Fleece)

    Kolchis 5th-4th C BCE BI hemidrachm 11.5mm 1.8g Archaic female head possibly Georgian goddess Dali - Bull head border SNG Cop 98

    Kebren AR Obol Archaic hd Apollo Left - Hd Ram in Incuse sq 5th C BCE 7.65mm 0.64g SNG Ash 1086
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  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter


    Troas Assos 500-450 BCE AR Tetartemorion 6.4mm 0.21g Griffin springing right - Astragalos within incuse square Klein 475 VF Rare

    ASIA MINOR Uncertain mint AR Tetartemorion Lion - Incuse 5mm 0.13g

    Ionia AR Tetartemorion 4mm 0.13g 530-500 BCE Rosette - Incuse sq punch 5 pellets SNG von Aulock 1807

    Iona Kolophon AR Tetartemorion 530-520 BCE Archaic Apollo Incuse Punch 0.15g 4.5mm- SNG Kayhan 343 Left old

    Ionia Miletos AR Tetartemorion  5.6mm 0.21g Roaring Lion Hd - Bird Klein 430 SNG Kay 941.JPG
    Ionia Miletos AR Tetartemorion 5.6mm 0.21g Roaring Lion Hd - Bird Klein 430 SNG Kay 941
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  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    From what I've read, the archaic period of non-Eastern coinage ends around 480 BCE. Perhaps if you define it by certain style elements, that number could be moved a bit either direction.

    There's something magical and wonderful about archaic coins :)

    IONIA, Klazomenai
    498-494 BCE
    AR drachm, 6.77 gm
    Obv: forepart of winged boar right
    Rev: incuse square, somewhat quadripartite
    Ref: Rosen 563; Jameson 1492; Asyut 615; Traité II 487; SNG Copenhagen 1-2)
    ex NFA MBS (18 October 1990), part of lot 310

    KINGS OF LYDIA, temp. Ardys - Alyattes
    c. 630s-564/53 BCE (dates from a CNG listing of a similar coin)
    Electrum trite, 4.8 gm, 13.4 mm. Sardes mint.
    Obv: head of roaring lion right, sun with four rays on forehead
    Rev: two incuse square punches
    Ref: Weidauer Group XV, 64; BMC 2 (I do not have these books and cannot verify)

    IONIA, Samos
    510-500 BCE
    AR drachm, 13.7 mm, 3.2 gm
    Obv: forepart of winged boar left
    Rev: facing lion scalp with dotted square, within incuse square
    Ref: SNG Cop 1673

    MACEDONIA, uncertain
    c. 500 BCE
    AR trihemitetartemorion (trihemiobol), 5 mm, 0.26 gm
    Obv: monkey squatting left
    Rev: round shield or pellet within incuse square
    Ref: "Uncertain Thraco-Macedonian Coins, Part II", Nomismatika Khronika (1998, Tzamalis), 67
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  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter


    Achaemenid Persia
    PERSIA Achaemenid Daris I-Xerxes II 485-420 BC AV Daric 14mm 8.3g LydoMilesian Sardes king wearing kidaris kandys quiver spear bow Incuse Carr Type IIIb Group A-B pl XIII 27

    Persia Achaemenid Empire Darius I 510-486 BC AR 0.11g 5mm 1-32nd Siglos Persian hero-king in running incuse Klein 758 Rare

    Persia Achaemenid Type III spear over shoulder Darius I to Xerxes II Ca 485-420 BCE AR Siglos Bankers Marks Incuse rev
  10. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    ApolloniaPontica 2.jpg
    AR Hemiobol
    OBVERSE: Anchor, A in field
    REVERSE: Swastika with two parallel lines in each quadrant
    Struck at Apollonia Pontika, circa 500BC
    .28g, 6.54mm
    SNG BM 149; Moushmov 3146
    ex. Aegean Numismaics
    AR Siglos
    OBVERSE: Persian king or hero in kneeling/running stance right, holding spear and bow
    REVERSE: Incuse punch
    Struck at Persia, 485-420 BC
    5.5g, 16mm
    Carradice Type IIIb, Group A/B (pl. XII, 18)
    ATTICA AEGINA aa.jpg
    AR Stater
    OBVERSE: Sea-turtle (T-backed); head in profile
    REVERSE: Large square incuse with skew pattern
    Struck at Aegina, 480-457BC
    11.96g, 20mm
    SNG Cop 507
    AEOLIS, KYME.jpg
    AR Hemiobol
    OBVERSE: Eagle's head left, KY to left (M beneath the head, nearly off flan)
    REVERSE: Quadrapartite incuse square of mill-sail pattern
    Struck at Aeolis, 450BC
    .46g, 7mm
    SNG Cop 32
    AR Obol
    OBVERSE: Archaic head of Apollo left
    REVERSE: Ram'S head left within an incuse square
    Struck at Troas, Kebren Circa 450 BC
    .56g, 7mm
    Rosen 534; Traité pl. xxxix, 25, SNG Ashmolean 1086
    ex. Aegean Numismaics
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  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Sybaris AR nomos 6th century = one of the Pythagorean inspired incuse reverse types (not a brockage)
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  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter


    Mysia Kyzicus AR Hemiobol 480-450 BCE Boar-Lion Sear 3850

    (this rare breed died out during the Greek Classical period. The Amazons kept using them as skeet.)

    Ionia Klazomenai 480-400 BC AR Drachm Pentobol 3.5g 13mm Forepart winged boar r gorgoneion incuse sq Cf SNG Copenhagen 12 Rare
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  13. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Supporter! Supporter

    Selinos Stater 540-525 B.C. Obv Wild celery or selinion leaf. Rv Incuses square with 12 triangular segments HGC 1211 8.77 grms 19 mm selinos1.jpeg
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  14. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    This is my only Archaic piece at present.

  15. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    LYDIA Kroisos - AR Siglos 2521.jpg LYDIA, Kingdom of. Kroisos.
    AR Siglos. 5.31g, 19.1mm. LYDIA, Sardes, circa 560-546 BC. Rosen 663; SNG Kayhan 1024-1026. O: Confronted foreparts of a lion and a bull. R: Two incuse squares, one larger than the other; to left, countermark: head wearing crested helmet right.
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  16. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    Some super fun additional ingredients! You all have reminded me that I have a few more to share...
    Though, I was remiss in leaving out an image of some of the amazing archaic pottery:

    Here are a few more archaic beauties I have laying around;)

    I might not have archaic gold like @TIF and @Alegandron (amazing pieces you 2...even if Gandy cheated posting one of Greece's enemies). But like (nothing like) @lordmarcovan's ridiculously opulent coin, I also have an electrum, huh, huh fouree, chewwww! (Nobody noticed that, right??)

    Ionia. Ephesos
    circa 600-550 BC.
    1/48 Stater EL fourrée
    3mm., 0,15g.
    Lion's paw / Incuse punch.
    nearly very fine
    Karwiese series I / Type 1 (for prototype).


    Mysia, Kyzikos
    AR Hemiobol (7.99 mm, 0.37 g), c. 525-475 BCE.
    Obv. Forepart of boar left; tunny to right.
    Rev. Head of roaring lion left; star in upper left field.
    SNG France 375.
    Nicely toned and extremely fine

    And of course, to quote Tracey Morgan, "The freaky deakys need love to, Kenneth, freaky deakys need love to." How could I forget my GORGONS!?!?!?

    Mysia, Parion.
    Civic issue. Ca. 500-475 B.C. AR drachm (13.69 mm, 3.12 g). Facing Gorgoneion / Complex multiple incuse punch design in roughly cruciform pattern. SNG Cop. 256; Asyut 612. Near VF, lightly toned; Ex-Frank Robinson

    I might not have one of those SaWeet Alexander I's like @Andres2 and @Alegandron...but I have a coin purported to be just before he took over:cigar::

    Macedon, Neapolis
    AR Obol. Circa 500-480 BC. Gorgoneion with protruding tongue / Quadripartite incuse square. Traite II 1, 1742, pl. 55, 17. BMC p. 84, 13; SNG ANS 423. 0.65g, 8mm.
    Extremely Fine. Fine late archaic style.

    Barely making the cut is this little Athenian obol (?):

    Attica, Athens. Ca 480-460 BC. AR Obol (9mm, 0.62g). Helmeted head of Athena right / Owl standing right, head facing, olive sprig behind, AΘE to right. Kroll 13; Svoronos pl. 8, 42. Former Kairos Numismatik

    And lastly, what I often have referred to as my favorite coin!


    SICILY. Syracuse. Deinomenid Tyranny
    485-466 BC. AR Tetradrachm (24mm - 17.45 g). Struck circa 480-475 BC. Charioteer driving walking quadriga right, holding kentron and reins; Nike flying above crowning horses / Diademed head of Arethusa right, surrounded by four dolphins swimming clockwise. Boehringer 134 (V60/R93); SNG ANS 38 (same dies); Randazzo -. rev sl off-ctr, sl surface imperfections,most notably a horizontal scratchlike flaw in obv right field.

    Hats off to @Terence Cheesman for brigning a healthy snack to go along with the cake! I have never seen anything like that beauty!
    Thanks for sharing all that we have seen so far. Please don't be afraid to double dip if you have more. I LOVE these coins:kiss::singing:
  17. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    I like your Macedonian gorgon Ryro , would fit nicely in my collection :)

    Successor of Alexander the first:

    P1230518a best.jpg
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  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Nice coin @Andres2 ! Here is my Perdikkas

    Perdikkos II 454-413 BCE
    AR heavy tetrobol 2.4g 15mm 12h mint 437-431 BC
    horseman holding two spears prancing
    Forepart Lion in incuse square
    Raymond 184ff SNG ANS 47ff
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  19. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    Most don't know it, but Per dikkos is actually the greek form of the latin name Biggus Dickus. They were distantly related and both suffered the same demise, as they were both hung.

  20. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    LOL, oh dat is a TWOOO storwey!!!
    Ryro likes this.
  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Hey, I forgot about these Archaics:

    THRACO-MAKEDON TRIBES- MYGDONES or KRESTONES 480-470 BCE AR Obol 0.79g 11mm Goat Quadripartite incuse square AMNG III 14

    ARGOLIS Argos 490-470 BC AR Triobol 14mm 2.9g Forepart of wolf lying - A 2 incuse sqs pellet crossbar within shallow sq incuse BCD Peloponnesos 1009 RARE
    TIF, Bing, Ryro and 2 others like this.
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