Featured Learn About Die Doubling...

Prez2 · May 27, 2018

Raven Horse said: ↑

So that explains the obverse, what cause the indentation there ? Sorry, I'm very new to coin collecting. I do have the red book but not very informative in this situation. thank you very much for your reply
Click to expand...

Don't feel bad. I still have quite a time distinguishing DD's from MD, especially with the Kennedy half. I have many of them put aside simply because I can't confidently identify most of them either way. Some seem to have the skill to instantly tell the difference. I still cannot so, I'm with you.

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gabe9991 · Jun 4, 2018

Everybody i would reccomend you post your error and coin related questions over on the pcgs.com forum.

The people for the most part have been helpful to me

JayF · Jun 13, 2018

gabe9991 said: ↑

Everybody i would reccomend you post your error and coin related questions over on the pcgs.com forum.

The people for the most part have been helpful to me
Click to expand...

Interesting discussions there but I don't really see many new people asking about coins as much as here on CT. I've only been reading U.S. Coin Forum though.

KArmstrong · Jun 18, 2018

Hello!

Would this be considered a double die? I have a 1968 D with what appears to be double die on the obverse and reverse edges. I have another 1968 D next to it for comparison.

TIA!

BooksB4Coins · Jun 18, 2018

KArmstrong said: ↑

Hello!

Would this be considered a double die? I have a 1968 D with what appears to be double die on the obverse and reverse edges. I have another 1968 D next to it for comparison.

TIA!
Click to expand...

I don't see anything noteworthy, unfortunately. What exactly are you seeing?

Welcome to the forum.

KArmstrong · Jun 18, 2018

BooksB4Coins said: ↑

I don't see anything noteworthy, unfortunately. What exactly are you seeing?

Welcome to the forum.
Click to expand...

It looks like a double edge on the obverse left side and a partial on the back

BooksB4Coins · Jun 18, 2018

KArmstrong said: ↑

It looks like a double edge on the obverse left side and a partial on the back
Click to expand...

Here's a link that should be enlightening...

http://doubleddie.com/58222.html

Be sure to check out the "worthless doubling" and "how dies are made" pages listed on the upper left hand side. The site as a whole is certainly worth exploring though.

Bate · Aug 16, 2018

Here is my DDR 2006D LMC

Prez2 · Aug 16, 2018

Excellent photographic skills. My eyes are hurting just thinking about looking at such preciseness.

Bate · Aug 16, 2018

Thanks Prezâ

CoinShotz · Oct 14, 2018

Thank you for the informative article, This helped a lot!

Christopher Taylor · Mar 1, 2019

That’s what’s up. now that is some well explained good information thanks JT

David Eugene Swiger · Apr 23, 2019

Morgan said: ↑

Need help with a possible Double Die Kennedy

I was looking through some Kennedy Halves and I came across this Bicentenial coin. I think that it is a Double Die Error. The area in question is the date specifically the right side or the 1976. It appears to me that the 9, 7, and 6 show possible doubling.

I have tried my best to provide clear and legiable picture which emphasize the doubling, however the pictures are nothing compared to how this looks in a 20X loupe.

From what is shown in the following pictures does the date show doubling? Or should I invest in better glasses?
Click to expand...

NOT AN EXPERT....with that said, this looks more like mechanical doubling. Hope I'm wrong but that is just what it looks like to me, sorry.

Nick Chiappetta · Apr 25, 2019

jtwax said: ↑

How Doubled Dies are Created and Their Classes.

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

Take the Doubling I.Q. Test.

Doubling: Worthless or Valuable?

What is an RPM or OMM?

Two exciting varieties to collect. Two formidable tasks that require a steady stream of knowledge, information and most importantly, help. If you decide to explore their potential enjoyment and challenge then here is some information and perhaps a little, help.

You should be familiar with the minting process before you dwell to deeply into acquiring RPMs and OMMs. It would be wiser to have more than just a cursory knowledge of the minting process of course, so it is recommend that you try to obtain a book or reference on this subject when you can.

RPM and OMM varieties are closely associated with the DIE as part of the overall minting process, so it is also highly recommended that you at least perceive how a die is created and obtain reference materials on this specific subject too. As you read this RPM and OMM information, you will understand the importance of gaining knowledge about the die-making process.

At the Mint, a die is created. When the die is almost finished by the mint workers there comes the task of placing the Mint mark on the die before it will be used to produce millions of coins (pre-1990).

The Mint employee who puts the Mint mark on the die is commonly referred to as the ENGRAVER. The engraver is sitting behind a counter or table. In front of him or her will be clamps or a device commonly know as a "vice". The die is secured between this clamp or vice so it will not move during the remainder of this process. On the table nearby, the engraver will have a detailed sketch or drawing of the coin design. On this drawing there will be a special highlighted area where the Mint mark is to be placed. By "area" we are referring to a specific designated place on the die that is much wider and longer than the actual size of a Mint mark. There is plenty of room or latitude for the engraver to work within. This latitude explains why you will find a "S" Mint mark say, for 1955 cents, in different locations under the date. For instance, on one die for 1955 S cents the Mint mark was placed just to the right or east under the "9" of the date. On another die the Mint mark is found directly under the "5" of the date. Both Mint marks are within the space or area shown on the sketch, yet in different locations therefore within the Mint "standards".

The Mint mark punch is typical of punches you can purchase at any hardware store. At the Mint, the shaft of the punches are color-coded by using different colors of paint so the engraver can easily determine which punch has the Mint mark of "D" or "S" and so on. The shaft of the punch is "V" shaped. This "V" shape grooving on the side of the shaft allows the engraver to readily "feel" that the punch is in the proper upright (or normal) position. At the end of the punch is the letter of the Mint mark in its normal size, shape, etc.

The engraver looks at the sketch and the location or area where the Mint mark is to be positioned or placed. Once the engraver is satisfied that the "V" shaped grooves are in his hand correctly and that the tip of the punch that has the Mint mark of "D" or "S", etc., is the proper position, the thick end or top of the punch is hit firmly by a mallet.

How hard is the punch hit? However hard the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. How many times is the punch hit? However many times the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. No one really knows the answer to this question. But one thing is for sure - Variety collectors can at least intelligently guess how hard and how many times. That's one of the primary reasons they collect these varieties in the first place!

It is generally accepted consensus of RPM and OMM collectors that the engraver strikes the punch with the mallet more than one time in order to assure that the Mint mark is sufficiently imprinted into the die face. However, it is equally noteworthy that many times the Mint mark is placed on the die with only one blow to the mallet in the opinion of some experts.

RPMs occur after the engraver strikes the mallet with the first blow to the top of the punch. Remember that the Mint mark punch is hand held and struck by the mallet in this manner. After the first blow, the engraver will check that the Mint mark has been placed inside the designated area that is on the sketch. A careful check will also be made to assure that the Mint mark punched into the die is clearly visible and sufficient enough for the coining process. If, in the judgment of the engraver, another blow with the mallet is required the punch is placed back on top to the original Mint mark and struck again, or again, or again, or .... until the engraver is satisfied. It is also possible that the initial blow from the mallet to strike the Mint mark could cause a "bounce" of the punch, thus creating a doubled, tripled, or more Mint mark punch.

The exact repositioning of the tip of the punch on top of the Mint mark already placed on the die requires a steady hand, keen eyesight, and solid nerves. If the Mint mark at the tip of the punch for the second strike is not positioned exactly on top of the existing Mint mark then a RPM has been created. If a third, fourth, fifth, six, etc., blows occur then multiples of the Mint mark can and have appeared. This inaccuracy is the foundation for the joy of searching for RPMs!

An OMM is a coin that has two (2) different letters or Mint marks punched into the same die. It is generally accepted by the RPM and OMM variety community that there are two primary reasons why a die would have two distinctly different Mint marks.

The first reason is premised upon economic measures instituted by the Mint. A die already has, say, a "D" Mint mark in the die. The die is in such a condition where it can continue to be used to produce coins, so a decision is made by the Mint to use the "D" Mint mark die for "S" Mint mark coins. It is ordered that a "S" be punched on top of the original "D". The "S" Mint mark coins with the "D" underneath are produced and a OMM is created for the collector!

The second reason is not associated with Mint policy, practices, or cost-saving efforts, but rather, a unintentional mistake by the engraver. Remember that the punch the engraver used is colored so they would know which punch had a "D", "S" etc. Picture that the engraver has a die which requires a "D" Mint mark. The "S' punch is unintentional picked-up and the blow by the mallet is struck. The engraver is checking this first blow to be assure it is inside the area shown on the sketch. The engraver sees the "S" Mint mark was used and not the "D". An error has occurred. Instead of discarding the die the engraver simply takes the correct "D" Mint mark punch and "covers" his mistake with it via several blows to the mallet. No harm done. The die is usable for its life in the coining press.

Conversely, the engraver may not even notice that a "S" has been placed on the die intended for a "D". An interruption, break, lunch, etc., and the engraver returns to the task at hand. Pick-up the colored punch with the "D" Mint mark and strike one or more blows to the mallet without looking at the original or error "S" Mint mark that is showing. The engraver unintentionally made a mistake and never knew it. If the engraver did look and did see the "S" no one but the engraver will ever know.

RPMs and OMMs come in many different forms and configurations. No in-depth discussion of these attributes is necessary right now, but for your enjoyment of "the hunt", RPMs and OMMs can be found in a vertical over horizontal position: a vertical over inverted position: on top or under the number (s) of the date: with two totally separated Mint marks: even tilted: and, the overlapping of a Mint mark once or several times in succession.

If terms such as "inverted" or "vertical" or "tilted" seem confusing, even contradictory, when thinking of the engraver sitting there at the bench with the punch in hand that is waiting to be struck by the mallet then welcome to the great realm of RPM and OMM collecting! Whatever you do, don't fret over the terms.

Lastly, don't forget that since 1990 the Mint mark has been made directly on the die. There will be no true RPMs and OMMs from 1990 to the present. No big deal, though. There are thousands and thousand out there in variety-land just waiting to be collected and discovered... by you!

- by George Wilkinson
Click to expand...

Very informative and knowledgeable! ! Thank you sir. I enjoyed the read !!

David Eugene Swiger · Apr 26, 2019

KArmstrong said: ↑

Hello!

Would this be considered a double die? I have a 1968 D with what appears to be double die on the obverse and reverse edges. I have another 1968 D next to it for comparison.

TIA!
Click to expand...

What I see is an off-centered punch at 10 o'clock. Not extremely rare but interesting find.

Kasia · Apr 26, 2019

.

Charlie Cliques · May 30, 2019

jtwax said: ↑

How Doubled Dies are Created and Their Classes.

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

Take the Doubling I.Q. Test.

Doubling: Worthless or Valuable?

What is an RPM or OMM?

Two exciting varieties to collect. Two formidable tasks that require a steady stream of knowledge, information and most importantly, help. If you decide to explore their potential enjoyment and challenge then here is some information and perhaps a little, help.

You should be familiar with the minting process before you dwell to deeply into acquiring RPMs and OMMs. It would be wiser to have more than just a cursory knowledge of the minting process of course, so it is recommend that you try to obtain a book or reference on this subject when you can.

RPM and OMM varieties are closely associated with the DIE as part of the overall minting process, so it is also highly recommended that you at least perceive how a die is created and obtain reference materials on this specific subject too. As you read this RPM and OMM information, you will understand the importance of gaining knowledge about the die-making process.

At the Mint, a die is created. When the die is almost finished by the mint workers there comes the task of placing the Mint mark on the die before it will be used to produce millions of coins (pre-1990).

The Mint employee who puts the Mint mark on the die is commonly referred to as the ENGRAVER. The engraver is sitting behind a counter or table. In front of him or her will be clamps or a device commonly know as a "vice". The die is secured between this clamp or vice so it will not move during the remainder of this process. On the table nearby, the engraver will have a detailed sketch or drawing of the coin design. On this drawing there will be a special highlighted area where the Mint mark is to be placed. By "area" we are referring to a specific designated place on the die that is much wider and longer than the actual size of a Mint mark. There is plenty of room or latitude for the engraver to work within. This latitude explains why you will find a "S" Mint mark say, for 1955 cents, in different locations under the date. For instance, on one die for 1955 S cents the Mint mark was placed just to the right or east under the "9" of the date. On another die the Mint mark is found directly under the "5" of the date. Both Mint marks are within the space or area shown on the sketch, yet in different locations therefore within the Mint "standards".

The Mint mark punch is typical of punches you can purchase at any hardware store. At the Mint, the shaft of the punches are color-coded by using different colors of paint so the engraver can easily determine which punch has the Mint mark of "D" or "S" and so on. The shaft of the punch is "V" shaped. This "V" shape grooving on the side of the shaft allows the engraver to readily "feel" that the punch is in the proper upright (or normal) position. At the end of the punch is the letter of the Mint mark in its normal size, shape, etc.

The engraver looks at the sketch and the location or area where the Mint mark is to be positioned or placed. Once the engraver is satisfied that the "V" shaped grooves are in his hand correctly and that the tip of the punch that has the Mint mark of "D" or "S", etc., is the proper position, the thick end or top of the punch is hit firmly by a mallet.

How hard is the punch hit? However hard the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. How many times is the punch hit? However many times the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. No one really knows the answer to this question. But one thing is for sure - Variety collectors can at least intelligently guess how hard and how many times. That's one of the primary reasons they collect these varieties in the first place!

It is generally accepted consensus of RPM and OMM collectors that the engraver strikes the punch with the mallet more than one time in order to assure that the Mint mark is sufficiently imprinted into the die face. However, it is equally noteworthy that many times the Mint mark is placed on the die with only one blow to the mallet in the opinion of some experts.

RPMs occur after the engraver strikes the mallet with the first blow to the top of the punch. Remember that the Mint mark punch is hand held and struck by the mallet in this manner. After the first blow, the engraver will check that the Mint mark has been placed inside the designated area that is on the sketch. A careful check will also be made to assure that the Mint mark punched into the die is clearly visible and sufficient enough for the coining process. If, in the judgment of the engraver, another blow with the mallet is required the punch is placed back on top to the original Mint mark and struck again, or again, or again, or .... until the engraver is satisfied. It is also possible that the initial blow from the mallet to strike the Mint mark could cause a "bounce" of the punch, thus creating a doubled, tripled, or more Mint mark punch.

The exact repositioning of the tip of the punch on top of the Mint mark already placed on the die requires a steady hand, keen eyesight, and solid nerves. If the Mint mark at the tip of the punch for the second strike is not positioned exactly on top of the existing Mint mark then a RPM has been created. If a third, fourth, fifth, six, etc., blows occur then multiples of the Mint mark can and have appeared. This inaccuracy is the foundation for the joy of searching for RPMs!

An OMM is a coin that has two (2) different letters or Mint marks punched into the same die. It is generally accepted by the RPM and OMM variety community that there are two primary reasons why a die would have two distinctly different Mint marks.

The first reason is premised upon economic measures instituted by the Mint. A die already has, say, a "D" Mint mark in the die. The die is in such a condition where it can continue to be used to produce coins, so a decision is made by the Mint to use the "D" Mint mark die for "S" Mint mark coins. It is ordered that a "S" be punched on top of the original "D". The "S" Mint mark coins with the "D" underneath are produced and a OMM is created for the collector!

The second reason is not associated with Mint policy, practices, or cost-saving efforts, but rather, a unintentional mistake by the engraver. Remember that the punch the engraver used is colored so they would know which punch had a "D", "S" etc. Picture that the engraver has a die which requires a "D" Mint mark. The "S' punch is unintentional picked-up and the blow by the mallet is struck. The engraver is checking this first blow to be assure it is inside the area shown on the sketch. The engraver sees the "S" Mint mark was used and not the "D". An error has occurred. Instead of discarding the die the engraver simply takes the correct "D" Mint mark punch and "covers" his mistake with it via several blows to the mallet. No harm done. The die is usable for its life in the coining press.

Conversely, the engraver may not even notice that a "S" has been placed on the die intended for a "D". An interruption, break, lunch, etc., and the engraver returns to the task at hand. Pick-up the colored punch with the "D" Mint mark and strike one or more blows to the mallet without looking at the original or error "S" Mint mark that is showing. The engraver unintentionally made a mistake and never knew it. If the engraver did look and did see the "S" no one but the engraver will ever know.

RPMs and OMMs come in many different forms and configurations. No in-depth discussion of these attributes is necessary right now, but for your enjoyment of "the hunt", RPMs and OMMs can be found in a vertical over horizontal position: a vertical over inverted position: on top or under the number (s) of the date: with two totally separated Mint marks: even tilted: and, the overlapping of a Mint mark once or several times in succession.

If terms such as "inverted" or "vertical" or "tilted" seem confusing, even contradictory, when thinking of the engraver sitting there at the bench with the punch in hand that is waiting to be struck by the mallet then welcome to the great realm of RPM and OMM collecting! Whatever you do, don't fret over the terms.

Lastly, don't forget that since 1990 the Mint mark has been made directly on the die. There will be no true RPMs and OMMs from 1990 to the present. No big deal, though. There are thousands and thousand out there in variety-land just waiting to be collected and discovered... by you!

- by George Wilkinson
Click to expand...

Hi, just fyi- these 3 links aren't working

How Doubled Dies are Created and Their Classes.

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

Take the Doubling I.Q. Test.

carra's coins · Jun 16, 2019

Thank You There is a big difference

carra's coins · Jun 16, 2019

I am learning about this hobby especially about real D/D it looks like you can put down your magnifier because you can tell a true D/D without one.

David Eugene Swiger · Jun 16, 2019

carra's coins said: ↑

I am learning about this hobby especially about real D/D it looks like you can put down your magnifier because you can tell a true D/D without one.
Click to expand...

This has been mentioned before and again, that would be nice if my 65 year old, farsighted, glaucoma eyes would let me do so. Not to mention, some other members have requested a closer look at certain items. So to each their own and thanks for your input either way.

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Featured Learn About Die Doubling...

Prez2 Well-Known Member

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JayF Active Member

KArmstrong New Member

Attached Files:

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BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

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BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

Bate Active Member

Prez2 Well-Known Member

Bate Active Member

CoinShotz Member

Christopher Taylor “BE KIND, OTHERS ARE FIGHTING THEIR BATTLES TOO”

David Eugene Swiger Active Member

Nick Chiappetta Member

David Eugene Swiger Active Member

Kasia Got my learning hat on

Charlie Cliques Active Member

carra's coins Jack The Ripper Sharpens His Knifes With Coins

carra's coins Jack The Ripper Sharpens His Knifes With Coins

David Eugene Swiger Active Member

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Featured Learn About Die Doubling...

Prez2 Well-Known Member

Guest User Guest

gabe9991 New Member

JayF Active Member

KArmstrong New Member

Attached Files:

P1180666.JPG

P1180697.JPG

BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

KArmstrong New Member

BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

Bate Active Member

Prez2 Well-Known Member

Bate Active Member

CoinShotz Member

Christopher Taylor “BE KIND, OTHERS ARE FIGHTING THEIR BATTLES TOO”

David Eugene Swiger Active Member

Nick Chiappetta Member

David Eugene Swiger Active Member

Kasia Got my learning hat on

Charlie Cliques Active Member

carra's coins Jack The Ripper Sharpens His Knifes With Coins

carra's coins Jack The Ripper Sharpens His Knifes With Coins

David Eugene Swiger Active Member

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