Featured Learn About Die Doubling...

Treashunt · Oct 12, 2016

Caliwiser said: ↑

I have a 1973-D Kennedy half dollar possible double die? Is there any value? If any besides face value? View attachment 539860 View attachment 539861 View attachment 539862 View attachment 539863 View attachment 539864
Click to expand...

#1: It is a doubleD die, and
32: No

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Caliwiser · Oct 13, 2016

Treashunt said: ↑

#1: It is a doubleD die, and
32: No
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

Caliwiser · Nov 7, 2016

I was wondering if this is machine doubling? What type of doubling is this? Sorry for posting many pics.

Coindozer29 · Mar 4, 2017

jtwax said: ↑

How Doubled Dies are Created and Their Classes.

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

Take the Doubling I.Q. Test.

Doubling: Worthless or Valuable?

What is an RPM or OMM?

Two exciting varieties to collect. Two formidable tasks that require a steady stream of knowledge, information and most importantly, help. If you decide to explore their potential enjoyment and challenge then here is some information and perhaps a little, help.

You should be familiar with the minting process before you dwell to deeply into acquiring RPMs and OMMs. It would be wiser to have more than just a cursory knowledge of the minting process of course, so it is recommend that you try to obtain a book or reference on this subject when you can.

RPM and OMM varieties are closely associated with the DIE as part of the overall minting process, so it is also highly recommended that you at least perceive how a die is created and obtain reference materials on this specific subject too. As you read this RPM and OMM information, you will understand the importance of gaining knowledge about the die-making process.

At the Mint, a die is created. When the die is almost finished by the mint workers there comes the task of placing the Mint mark on the die before it will be used to produce millions of coins (pre-1990).

The Mint employee who puts the Mint mark on the die is commonly referred to as the ENGRAVER. The engraver is sitting behind a counter or table. In front of him or her will be clamps or a device commonly know as a "vice". The die is secured between this clamp or vice so it will not move during the remainder of this process. On the table nearby, the engraver will have a detailed sketch or drawing of the coin design. On this drawing there will be a special highlighted area where the Mint mark is to be placed. By "area" we are referring to a specific designated place on the die that is much wider and longer than the actual size of a Mint mark. There is plenty of room or latitude for the engraver to work within. This latitude explains why you will find a "S" Mint mark say, for 1955 cents, in different locations under the date. For instance, on one die for 1955 S cents the Mint mark was placed just to the right or east under the "9" of the date. On another die the Mint mark is found directly under the "5" of the date. Both Mint marks are within the space or area shown on the sketch, yet in different locations therefore within the Mint "standards".

The Mint mark punch is typical of punches you can purchase at any hardware store. At the Mint, the shaft of the punches are color-coded by using different colors of paint so the engraver can easily determine which punch has the Mint mark of "D" or "S" and so on. The shaft of the punch is "V" shaped. This "V" shape grooving on the side of the shaft allows the engraver to readily "feel" that the punch is in the proper upright (or normal) position. At the end of the punch is the letter of the Mint mark in its normal size, shape, etc.

The engraver looks at the sketch and the location or area where the Mint mark is to be positioned or placed. Once the engraver is satisfied that the "V" shaped grooves are in his hand correctly and that the tip of the punch that has the Mint mark of "D" or "S", etc., is the proper position, the thick end or top of the punch is hit firmly by a mallet.

How hard is the punch hit? However hard the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. How many times is the punch hit? However many times the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. No one really knows the answer to this question. But one thing is for sure - Variety collectors can at least intelligently guess how hard and how many times. That's one of the primary reasons they collect these varieties in the first place!

It is generally accepted consensus of RPM and OMM collectors that the engraver strikes the punch with the mallet more than one time in order to assure that the Mint mark is sufficiently imprinted into the die face. However, it is equally noteworthy that many times the Mint mark is placed on the die with only one blow to the mallet in the opinion of some experts.

RPMs occur after the engraver strikes the mallet with the first blow to the top of the punch. Remember that the Mint mark punch is hand held and struck by the mallet in this manner. After the first blow, the engraver will check that the Mint mark has been placed inside the designated area that is on the sketch. A careful check will also be made to assure that the Mint mark punched into the die is clearly visible and sufficient enough for the coining process. If, in the judgment of the engraver, another blow with the mallet is required the punch is placed back on top to the original Mint mark and struck again, or again, or again, or .... until the engraver is satisfied. It is also possible that the initial blow from the mallet to strike the Mint mark could cause a "bounce" of the punch, thus creating a doubled, tripled, or more Mint mark punch.

The exact repositioning of the tip of the punch on top of the Mint mark already placed on the die requires a steady hand, keen eyesight, and solid nerves. If the Mint mark at the tip of the punch for the second strike is not positioned exactly on top of the existing Mint mark then a RPM has been created. If a third, fourth, fifth, six, etc., blows occur then multiples of the Mint mark can and have appeared. This inaccuracy is the foundation for the joy of searching for RPMs!

An OMM is a coin that has two (2) different letters or Mint marks punched into the same die. It is generally accepted by the RPM and OMM variety community that there are two primary reasons why a die would have two distinctly different Mint marks.

The first reason is premised upon economic measures instituted by the Mint. A die already has, say, a "D" Mint mark in the die. The die is in such a condition where it can continue to be used to produce coins, so a decision is made by the Mint to use the "D" Mint mark die for "S" Mint mark coins. It is ordered that a "S" be punched on top of the original "D". The "S" Mint mark coins with the "D" underneath are produced and a OMM is created for the collector!

The second reason is not associated with Mint policy, practices, or cost-saving efforts, but rather, a unintentional mistake by the engraver. Remember that the punch the engraver used is colored so they would know which punch had a "D", "S" etc. Picture that the engraver has a die which requires a "D" Mint mark. The "S' punch is unintentional picked-up and the blow by the mallet is struck. The engraver is checking this first blow to be assure it is inside the area shown on the sketch. The engraver sees the "S" Mint mark was used and not the "D". An error has occurred. Instead of discarding the die the engraver simply takes the correct "D" Mint mark punch and "covers" his mistake with it via several blows to the mallet. No harm done. The die is usable for its life in the coining press.

Conversely, the engraver may not even notice that a "S" has been placed on the die intended for a "D". An interruption, break, lunch, etc., and the engraver returns to the task at hand. Pick-up the colored punch with the "D" Mint mark and strike one or more blows to the mallet without looking at the original or error "S" Mint mark that is showing. The engraver unintentionally made a mistake and never knew it. If the engraver did look and did see the "S" no one but the engraver will ever know.

RPMs and OMMs come in many different forms and configurations. No in-depth discussion of these attributes is necessary right now, but for your enjoyment of "the hunt", RPMs and OMMs can be found in a vertical over horizontal position: a vertical over inverted position: on top or under the number (s) of the date: with two totally separated Mint marks: even tilted: and, the overlapping of a Mint mark once or several times in succession.

If terms such as "inverted" or "vertical" or "tilted" seem confusing, even contradictory, when thinking of the engraver sitting there at the bench with the punch in hand that is waiting to be struck by the mallet then welcome to the great realm of RPM and OMM collecting! Whatever you do, don't fret over the terms.

Lastly, don't forget that since 1990 the Mint mark has been made directly on the die. There will be no true RPMs and OMMs from 1990 to the present. No big deal, though. There are thousands and thousand out there in variety-land just waiting to be collected and discovered... by you!

- by George Wilkinson
Click to expand...

Good read, thank you!

Nickbender83 · Mar 21, 2017

I found this what do y'all think?

Bobby Ramirez · Apr 12, 2017

I have a bicentennial quarter dollar on the reverse side in e pluribus it looks the e is doubled and on the obverse the d mint mark is blurred how much is the coin worth

Dv8one · Apr 23, 2017

jtwax said: ↑

How Doubled Dies are Created and Their Classes.

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

Take the Doubling I.Q. Test.

Doubling: Worthless or Valuable?

What is an RPM or OMM?

Two exciting varieties to collect. Two formidable tasks that require a steady stream of knowledge, information and most importantly, help. If you decide to explore their potential enjoyment and challenge then here is some information and perhaps a little, help.

You should be familiar with the minting process before you dwell to deeply into acquiring RPMs and OMMs. It would be wiser to have more than just a cursory knowledge of the minting process of course, so it is recommend that you try to obtain a book or reference on this subject when you can.

RPM and OMM varieties are closely associated with the DIE as part of the overall minting process, so it is also highly recommended that you at least perceive how a die is created and obtain reference materials on this specific subject too. As you read this RPM and OMM information, you will understand the importance of gaining knowledge about the die-making process.

At the Mint, a die is created. When the die is almost finished by the mint workers there comes the task of placing the Mint mark on the die before it will be used to produce millions of coins (pre-1990).

The Mint employee who puts the Mint mark on the die is commonly referred to as the ENGRAVER. The engraver is sitting behind a counter or table. In front of him or her will be clamps or a device commonly know as a "vice". The die is secured between this clamp or vice so it will not move during the remainder of this process. On the table nearby, the engraver will have a detailed sketch or drawing of the coin design. On this drawing there will be a special highlighted area where the Mint mark is to be placed. By "area" we are referring to a specific designated place on the die that is much wider and longer than the actual size of a Mint mark. There is plenty of room or latitude for the engraver to work within. This latitude explains why you will find a "S" Mint mark say, for 1955 cents, in different locations under the date. For instance, on one die for 1955 S cents the Mint mark was placed just to the right or east under the "9" of the date. On another die the Mint mark is found directly under the "5" of the date. Both Mint marks are within the space or area shown on the sketch, yet in different locations therefore within the Mint "standards".

The Mint mark punch is typical of punches you can purchase at any hardware store. At the Mint, the shaft of the punches are color-coded by using different colors of paint so the engraver can easily determine which punch has the Mint mark of "D" or "S" and so on. The shaft of the punch is "V" shaped. This "V" shape grooving on the side of the shaft allows the engraver to readily "feel" that the punch is in the proper upright (or normal) position. At the end of the punch is the letter of the Mint mark in its normal size, shape, etc.

The engraver looks at the sketch and the location or area where the Mint mark is to be positioned or placed. Once the engraver is satisfied that the "V" shaped grooves are in his hand correctly and that the tip of the punch that has the Mint mark of "D" or "S", etc., is the proper position, the thick end or top of the punch is hit firmly by a mallet.

How hard is the punch hit? However hard the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. How many times is the punch hit? However many times the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. No one really knows the answer to this question. But one thing is for sure - Variety collectors can at least intelligently guess how hard and how many times. That's one of the primary reasons they collect these varieties in the first place!

It is generally accepted consensus of RPM and OMM collectors that the engraver strikes the punch with the mallet more than one time in order to assure that the Mint mark is sufficiently imprinted into the die face. However, it is equally noteworthy that many times the Mint mark is placed on the die with only one blow to the mallet in the opinion of some experts.

RPMs occur after the engraver strikes the mallet with the first blow to the top of the punch. Remember that the Mint mark punch is hand held and struck by the mallet in this manner. After the first blow, the engraver will check that the Mint mark has been placed inside the designated area that is on the sketch. A careful check will also be made to assure that the Mint mark punched into the die is clearly visible and sufficient enough for the coining process. If, in the judgment of the engraver, another blow with the mallet is required the punch is placed back on top to the original Mint mark and struck again, or again, or again, or .... until the engraver is satisfied. It is also possible that the initial blow from the mallet to strike the Mint mark could cause a "bounce" of the punch, thus creating a doubled, tripled, or more Mint mark punch.

The exact repositioning of the tip of the punch on top of the Mint mark already placed on the die requires a steady hand, keen eyesight, and solid nerves. If the Mint mark at the tip of the punch for the second strike is not positioned exactly on top of the existing Mint mark then a RPM has been created. If a third, fourth, fifth, six, etc., blows occur then multiples of the Mint mark can and have appeared. This inaccuracy is the foundation for the joy of searching for RPMs!

An OMM is a coin that has two (2) different letters or Mint marks punched into the same die. It is generally accepted by the RPM and OMM variety community that there are two primary reasons why a die would have two distinctly different Mint marks.

The first reason is premised upon economic measures instituted by the Mint. A die already has, say, a "D" Mint mark in the die. The die is in such a condition where it can continue to be used to produce coins, so a decision is made by the Mint to use the "D" Mint mark die for "S" Mint mark coins. It is ordered that a "S" be punched on top of the original "D". The "S" Mint mark coins with the "D" underneath are produced and a OMM is created for the collector!

The second reason is not associated with Mint policy, practices, or cost-saving efforts, but rather, a unintentional mistake by the engraver. Remember that the punch the engraver used is colored so they would know which punch had a "D", "S" etc. Picture that the engraver has a die which requires a "D" Mint mark. The "S' punch is unintentional picked-up and the blow by the mallet is struck. The engraver is checking this first blow to be assure it is inside the area shown on the sketch. The engraver sees the "S" Mint mark was used and not the "D". An error has occurred. Instead of discarding the die the engraver simply takes the correct "D" Mint mark punch and "covers" his mistake with it via several blows to the mallet. No harm done. The die is usable for its life in the coining press.

Conversely, the engraver may not even notice that a "S" has been placed on the die intended for a "D". An interruption, break, lunch, etc., and the engraver returns to the task at hand. Pick-up the colored punch with the "D" Mint mark and strike one or more blows to the mallet without looking at the original or error "S" Mint mark that is showing. The engraver unintentionally made a mistake and never knew it. If the engraver did look and did see the "S" no one but the engraver will ever know.

RPMs and OMMs come in many different forms and configurations. No in-depth discussion of these attributes is necessary right now, but for your enjoyment of "the hunt", RPMs and OMMs can be found in a vertical over horizontal position: a vertical over inverted position: on top or under the number (s) of the date: with two totally separated Mint marks: even tilted: and, the overlapping of a Mint mark once or several times in succession.

If terms such as "inverted" or "vertical" or "tilted" seem confusing, even contradictory, when thinking of the engraver sitting there at the bench with the punch in hand that is waiting to be struck by the mallet then welcome to the great realm of RPM and OMM collecting! Whatever you do, don't fret over the terms.

Lastly, don't forget that since 1990 the Mint mark has been made directly on the die. There will be no true RPMs and OMMs from 1990 to the present. No big deal, though. There are thousands and thousand out there in variety-land just waiting to be collected and discovered... by you!

- by George Wilkinson
Click to expand...

Thanks alot for the post I learned alot

LaCointessa · May 1, 2017

I learned a whole bunch reading the article about how mint die errors can be created. Thanks for those articles, although a couple are no longer available (getting 404 error). I wanted to try the quiz but also got the same 404 page unavailable response. So I decided to do a self-examination. Here are a few photographs and this student's guestimate about what type of die error mark they may be.

Photo 1- 1992 cent (top) Date: Singe strike, flat field?
Mint mark: Double strike, flat field?

(p.s. As I was posting this, I noticed what appears to be a number "2" floating in there. I went and examined the coin again, checked other photographs and, yep, it sure looks like a 2 - but it is not the same type of '2' in the date).

-----------------------
Photo #2 - 1988 cent - Date: Machine doubling (strike) damage?
Mint mark: Double strike flat field?

--------------------------
Photo #3 UNITED: Ejection doubling
AND hub doubling counter clockwise?
Monument: Machine strike doubling damage?

--------------------------
Photo #4 - ONE = Plating split doubling? No..wait...no...maybe it's single strike flat field?

I can't wait to hear what you guys think about these die marks and the "floating 2"

Jewels2017 · Aug 23, 2017

gijoe76 said: ↑

This is one from my collection. I know it is a Wexler WDDR-002. The pictures are from the actual coin. Is this a true doubled die? Will NGC or PCGS eventually recognize the die varieties for the formative year Lincolns? View attachment 330126 View attachment 330127
Click to expand...

Well I know this thread is very old and actually I've seen this doubled die chart used all over the place on other different sites but the million dollar question here is does this sample chart actually cover EVERY type of doubled die known to exsist or is this just a general chart for some doubled die varieties ? The reason Im asking this question is because I have actually seen other forms of doubled die coins that don't actually fit the chart ... Infact I've also read an article myself on a site called The lincolncentres and they meantion how the NGCS don't believe that the formative years doubled die variety is a doubled die at all but some other form of error and I can actually understand why they would think that seeing as though how most TRUE DOUBLED DIES actually overlap the image and is almost never in-between the image or around the outside of the image like lincolns hand on the formative years example ... And then to make things even more strange and weird. I think that I might actually stumble across this strange doubled die variety myself from that variety where the doubling is actually on top of lincolns hand instead of inbetween Lincoln's fingers VALIDATING Some of what the NGCS was probably referring to . But I'll allow you to be the judge .

ValpoBeginner · Sep 1, 2017

Jewels2017 said: ↑

Well I know this thread is very old and actually I've seen this doubled die chart used all over the place on other different sites but the million dollar question here is does this sample chart actually cover EVERY type of doubled die known to exsist or is this just a general chart for some doubled die varieties ? The reason Im asking this question is because I have actually seen other forms of doubled die coins that don't actually fit the chart ... Infact I've also read an article myself on a site called The lincolncentres and they meantion how the NGCS don't believe that the formative years doubled die variety is a doubled die at all but some other form of error and I can actually understand why they would think that seeing as though how most TRUE DOUBLED DIES actually overlap the image and is almost never in-between the image or around the outside of the image like lincolns hand on the formative years example ... And then to make things even more strange and weird. I think that I might actually stumble across this strange doubled die variety myself from that variety where the doubling is actually on top of lincolns hand instead of inbetween Lincoln's fingers VALIDATING Some of what the NGCS was probably referring to . But I'll allow you to be the judge . View attachment 668678 View attachment 668679 View attachment 668680
Click to expand...

If it's not a doubled die, what would you call it? Looks like a hub retooling to me.

Jewels2017 · Sep 2, 2017

That's a good question ValpoB. But I wouldn't know what to call it . And the crazy thing is . I never paid any attention to any of his other fingers like his thumb and the last finger on his other four and they seem to have doubling as well which is strange .

Jewels2017 · Sep 2, 2017

Correction ... His other four fingers seemed to be Doubled as well. And what is Hub retooling ?

ValpoBeginner · Sep 2, 2017

Okay here is the way I understand it... It may not be fully accurate... but here goes. And please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong.

First a Galvano is made out of clay by the artist. Then one master hub is made by reducing the galvanos large size.....
the master Hub is the piece of Steel that is the actual size of the coin that is reduced from the galvano. It has the same positive image that the coin will eventually have on its surface and is hardened so that it will be able to make many dies. The master Hub is then pressed into die Steel to make the actual master dies (dies have the reverse or negative of the coins image). The master die is then used to make several working hubs.

The working hubs are then used to create working dies that actually strike the coins. It is from these working hubs and dies that variations tend to be put into the coins. Some hubs and dies are retooled due to breaks and I believe this is one way that doubled dies and other variations are produced en mass.

halfday40 · Oct 14, 2017

jtwax said: ↑

How Doubled Dies are Created and Their Classes.

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

Take the Doubling I.Q. Test.

Doubling: Worthless or Valuable?

What is an RPM or OMM?

Two exciting varieties to collect. Two formidable tasks that require a steady stream of knowledge, information and most importantly, help. If you decide to explore their potential enjoyment and challenge then here is some information and perhaps a little, help.

You should be familiar with the minting process before you dwell to deeply into acquiring RPMs and OMMs. It would be wiser to have more than just a cursory knowledge of the minting process of course, so it is recommend that you try to obtain a book or reference on this subject when you can.

RPM and OMM varieties are closely associated with the DIE as part of the overall minting process, so it is also highly recommended that you at least perceive how a die is created and obtain reference materials on this specific subject too. As you read this RPM and OMM information, you will understand the importance of gaining knowledge about the die-making process.

At the Mint, a die is created. When the die is almost finished by the mint workers there comes the task of placing the Mint mark on the die before it will be used to produce millions of coins (pre-1990).

The Mint employee who puts the Mint mark on the die is commonly referred to as the ENGRAVER. The engraver is sitting behind a counter or table. In front of him or her will be clamps or a device commonly know as a "vice". The die is secured between this clamp or vice so it will not move during the remainder of this process. On the table nearby, the engraver will have a detailed sketch or drawing of the coin design. On this drawing there will be a special highlighted area where the Mint mark is to be placed. By "area" we are referring to a specific designated place on the die that is much wider and longer than the actual size of a Mint mark. There is plenty of room or latitude for the engraver to work within. This latitude explains why you will find a "S" Mint mark say, for 1955 cents, in different locations under the date. For instance, on one die for 1955 S cents the Mint mark was placed just to the right or east under the "9" of the date. On another die the Mint mark is found directly under the "5" of the date. Both Mint marks are within the space or area shown on the sketch, yet in different locations therefore within the Mint "standards".

The Mint mark punch is typical of punches you can purchase at any hardware store. At the Mint, the shaft of the punches are color-coded by using different colors of paint so the engraver can easily determine which punch has the Mint mark of "D" or "S" and so on. The shaft of the punch is "V" shaped. This "V" shape grooving on the side of the shaft allows the engraver to readily "feel" that the punch is in the proper upright (or normal) position. At the end of the punch is the letter of the Mint mark in its normal size, shape, etc.

The engraver looks at the sketch and the location or area where the Mint mark is to be positioned or placed. Once the engraver is satisfied that the "V" shaped grooves are in his hand correctly and that the tip of the punch that has the Mint mark of "D" or "S", etc., is the proper position, the thick end or top of the punch is hit firmly by a mallet.

How hard is the punch hit? However hard the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. How many times is the punch hit? However many times the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. No one really knows the answer to this question. But one thing is for sure - Variety collectors can at least intelligently guess how hard and how many times. That's one of the primary reasons they collect these varieties in the first place!

It is generally accepted consensus of RPM and OMM collectors that the engraver strikes the punch with the mallet more than one time in order to assure that the Mint mark is sufficiently imprinted into the die face. However, it is equally noteworthy that many times the Mint mark is placed on the die with only one blow to the mallet in the opinion of some experts.

RPMs occur after the engraver strikes the mallet with the first blow to the top of the punch. Remember that the Mint mark punch is hand held and struck by the mallet in this manner. After the first blow, the engraver will check that the Mint mark has been placed inside the designated area that is on the sketch. A careful check will also be made to assure that the Mint mark punched into the die is clearly visible and sufficient enough for the coining process. If, in the judgment of the engraver, another blow with the mallet is required the punch is placed back on top to the original Mint mark and struck again, or again, or again, or .... until the engraver is satisfied. It is also possible that the initial blow from the mallet to strike the Mint mark could cause a "bounce" of the punch, thus creating a doubled, tripled, or more Mint mark punch.

The exact repositioning of the tip of the punch on top of the Mint mark already placed on the die requires a steady hand, keen eyesight, and solid nerves. If the Mint mark at the tip of the punch for the second strike is not positioned exactly on top of the existing Mint mark then a RPM has been created. If a third, fourth, fifth, six, etc., blows occur then multiples of the Mint mark can and have appeared. This inaccuracy is the foundation for the joy of searching for RPMs!

An OMM is a coin that has two (2) different letters or Mint marks punched into the same die. It is generally accepted by the RPM and OMM variety community that there are two primary reasons why a die would have two distinctly different Mint marks.

The first reason is premised upon economic measures instituted by the Mint. A die already has, say, a "D" Mint mark in the die. The die is in such a condition where it can continue to be used to produce coins, so a decision is made by the Mint to use the "D" Mint mark die for "S" Mint mark coins. It is ordered that a "S" be punched on top of the original "D". The "S" Mint mark coins with the "D" underneath are produced and a OMM is created for the collector!

The second reason is not associated with Mint policy, practices, or cost-saving efforts, but rather, a unintentional mistake by the engraver. Remember that the punch the engraver used is colored so they would know which punch had a "D", "S" etc. Picture that the engraver has a die which requires a "D" Mint mark. The "S' punch is unintentional picked-up and the blow by the mallet is struck. The engraver is checking this first blow to be assure it is inside the area shown on the sketch. The engraver sees the "S" Mint mark was used and not the "D". An error has occurred. Instead of discarding the die the engraver simply takes the correct "D" Mint mark punch and "covers" his mistake with it via several blows to the mallet. No harm done. The die is usable for its life in the coining press.

Conversely, the engraver may not even notice that a "S" has been placed on the die intended for a "D". An interruption, break, lunch, etc., and the engraver returns to the task at hand. Pick-up the colored punch with the "D" Mint mark and strike one or more blows to the mallet without looking at the original or error "S" Mint mark that is showing. The engraver unintentionally made a mistake and never knew it. If the engraver did look and did see the "S" no one but the engraver will ever know.

RPMs and OMMs come in many different forms and configurations. No in-depth discussion of these attributes is necessary right now, but for your enjoyment of "the hunt", RPMs and OMMs can be found in a vertical over horizontal position: a vertical over inverted position: on top or under the number (s) of the date: with two totally separated Mint marks: even tilted: and, the overlapping of a Mint mark once or several times in succession.

If terms such as "inverted" or "vertical" or "tilted" seem confusing, even contradictory, when thinking of the engraver sitting there at the bench with the punch in hand that is waiting to be struck by the mallet then welcome to the great realm of RPM and OMM collecting! Whatever you do, don't fret over the terms.

Lastly, don't forget that since 1990 the Mint mark has been made directly on the die. There will be no true RPMs and OMMs from 1990 to the present. No big deal, though. There are thousands and thousand out there in variety-land just waiting to be collected and discovered... by you!

- by George Wilkinson
Click to expand...

Thank you that was good info and I can see that I have much to learn and stoked to do so. I am a newbie and have had been looking to find a sorce of soild facts/Information to get things understood completely not bits and pices of info and left to guess the missing link s any good books can refer i will get it now thanks again, This is great and thanks to everyone here for the proper guidance to find the answers to my questions thanks ya all, really a great group here

desertgem · Oct 14, 2017

Be aware in your study that there was a large change in the way dies are made in the 1990s. Before that the classical hubbing as describe in several of the articles you have listed, produced 8 classes of true doubled die coin production. Then when they switched to single squeeze production, theoretically this should have eliminated any doubled die coins. But is this method, the single squeeze could 'chatter' during production due to poor design perhaps or problems with the coin press, and this produced a "doubling" of parts of the design. Now in the classical production multiple squeeze die production, this would be called machine doubling damage and no extra value, but for some reason...people and magazines started calling it "doubled die" like the before. So it was added as type 9 doubling. That is why some sources say it is not a doubled die, while others say it is a doubled die. People who deal in coins , and who were afraid perhaps that with no new doubled dies coming along, they would not make as much on coins jumped on the idea that is was valuable and everyone should collect them and pay the price. Classic doubled die collectors like me stop at the 1995 DD on the cent. I do have the 2009 series of "single squeeze" double dies, because they were so many and plentiful, I got boxes containing them for face at the bank. Ebay and others , sellers do not mention the difference, and a large percentage for sale are not DD, wishful thinking by the owners. Good luck ! You can learn a lot by reading old threads also. Jim

ValpoBeginner · Oct 15, 2017

desertgem said: ↑

Be aware in your study that there was a large change in the way dies are made in the 1990s. Before that the classical hubbing as describe in several of the articles you have listed, produced 8 classes of true doubled die coin production. Then when they switched to single squeeze production, theoretically this should have eliminated any doubled die coins. But is this method, the single squeeze could 'chatter' during production due to poor design perhaps or problems with the coin press, and this produced a "doubling" of parts of the design. Now in the classical production multiple squeeze die production, this would be called machine doubling damage and no extra value, but for some reason...people and magazines started calling it "doubled die" like the before. So it was added as type 9 doubling. That is why some sources say it is not a doubled die, while others say it is a doubled die. People who deal in coins , and who were afraid perhaps that with no new doubled dies coming along, they would not make as much on coins jumped on the idea that is was valuable and everyone should collect them and pay the price. Classic doubled die collectors like me stop at the 1995 DD on the cent. I do have the 2009 series of "single squeeze" double dies, because they were so many and plentiful, I got boxes containing them for face at the bank. Ebay and others , sellers do not mention the difference, and a large percentage for sale are not DD, wishful thinking by the owners. Good luck ! You can learn a lot by reading old threads also. Jim
Click to expand...

Wow that is really interesting that these coins fetch those kinds of prices. So how do you abbreviate the description using the Wexler method? Say it's a 1996 Nickel with obverse chatter doubling.. 5c 31-O-IX? If it can happen with any die that may chatter, how can you be sure (like in my example) that it was struck by die # 31. If you cannot then you that must be why you see so many variations having the same FS Number. Perhaps I should switch to a different system, like W. Breen's numbered varieties, which I do have some difficulty ID'ing because of all the different numbered ones without pics in the book.

And then there is the question of.... well what number do you want on your slab, if you should decide to certify a particularity high grade variety. My experience in buying coins is that the CONECA #'s and FS #'s are the most marketable. Basic Examples for this would be 1972 Lincoln cent DDO # 1, or FS-01-1972-101. Does the FS system ever include the stage of wear, for example I now use the CONECA number for most of one's I think I've nailed and then either put the EDS, or LDS. I haven't gotten any of the ones that get even more sprcific.. like stage B wear?

Wow man I asked... alot... of questions! I did not intend for the burden to be put solely on you.... so if you know any of these answers off hand please just answer one or 2. I didn't realize how much I didn't know about the newer cons... I have been waiting for an answer to the question of why so many 2004D dimes with ear doubling look so different with different lines across the ears in different places.. Now I know. Sorry to go on "chattering" like this for so long. Pun intended, but realized it was Extremely corny, and still wrote it... LOL. BUT....

on a serious note thanks SO MUCH for revealing this mystery on here. It would bug me and I probably tossed quite a few of those 2004D dimes into the change jar, because they didn't meet the exact criteria shown in the guide. At least two or three that I decided to look up, and didn't measure up exactly, went in to the change jar.... Wish I would have known about the type 9 back then.

Thanks again.... that post was HUGE for me!

dbeck22 · Oct 19, 2017

Amazing article

desertgem · Oct 19, 2017

Well, I was too old and traditional to start chasing the single squeeze stuff. I have variable respect for the authors/certifiers that wish to do such, and there has been a huge increase in variety collectors since the 2009 series, but there is little debate over a coin is a Lincoln 72/72 or 1960 D/D DDO, or the 55/55 DDO, so I will collect just up to when the craziness started, but unfortunately now, many classic non-DD lincolns cents are mistakenly ( 1917/17 is a big one) advertised on Ebay as DD, when they are not, they are MD. But since they seem to fit the appearance of most Single squeeze (DD) the owners and buyers are inaccurate in their understanding. Once I went down all of the listed 17/17 DDO and out of 18 listed , 2 were true ( and the price reflected that) so caution is advised. Enjoy whatever you wish to collect, but understand them well. Jim

TheFinn · Nov 7, 2017

Morgan said: ↑

The coins were actually in circulation and were found by me. Part of a $100.00 on halves I was searching. I was pretty sure they were strike doubling errors but as I am new I wanted to get a confirmation.

After finding these two I found two more. One on a 78-D and one on a 71-D. Im begining to think that strike doubling is preety common.
Click to expand...

It is very common. At the speeds that modern presses run, thousands can be struck in a matter of minutes. And with all of the vibration, just a slightly loose die can chatter a lot. Then there is die wear that makes the letters appear to be doubled.

DoublePenny · Dec 3, 2017

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

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