Late Roman Silver

I really like Siliquae, but the budget gets in the way.
Nevertheless, I have two. One (gratefully) given to me by another member, and another, my only purchase. I hope that you like them as I do.

(1) Constantius II RIC VIII. Arles 261 FER 1030 Siliqua


(2) VALENS RIC IX.Trier 27e Siliqua

 

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I love late Roman silver. here are a few of mine.


Constantius II, Siliqua, Constantinople. RIC 102. 3.46 g. Ex G. de Falco Mar. 1961.


Julian II, Siliqua, Arles. RIC 309. 2.05 g. Ex 1887 East Harptree hoard.


Jovian, Siliqua, Nicomedia. RIC 127. 2.03 g.


Theodosius II, Miliarense, Constantinople. RIC 370. 4.35 g. Ex Hunt, Sotheby's 5-6 Dec. 1990 lot 21.

Gratian, Siliqua, Trier. RIC 27f. 2.23 g.

 

And one more I forgot to tack on. Not a siliqua, but argenteus.

Maximianus, Argenteus, Rome. RIC 27b. 3.61 g.

 

Wow, great coins all, Voulgaroktonou!

 

Thank you. I deliberately excluded Byzantine silver, which is my favorite of all.

 

May I join the "Siliqua club" please ??? I've only 480 siliquae in my collection.

No time to push to you the picture of each....

 

I have no knowledge of the specific episode of Roman clipping – but have looked at clipping more generally – and on the basis of that suggest you have to take a step further back.

To put it crudely, the question is

Was the clipping to do with:

a) the state short changing people, or

b) people short changing the state?

As I mentioned elsewhere a few times – the best studied episode I know of is the clipping of gold guineas in England in the 1770’s. That was all to do with people short changing the state. It was centrally masterminded by a criminal gang, but it also got a lot of popular support. Clipped coin was widely accepted at least in the North of England. Some people gained, and few lost, except the collector of taxes for remit South to London – he lost big time. It had nothing to do with a reduction of official weight standards.

There was also a lot of clipping of silver just prior to the English 1696 re-coinage. I never got a full story on that – but again - its nothing to do with a reduction of official weight standards – in fact the weight was about to be raised, in practice. It looks more like people knew they were going to be hit with a big bill to pay for the re-coinage – so they “got their rebate in first” so to speak.

A third huge episode of clipping took place in the early Arab caliphate. Again, its not tied to any official reduction in weight standard – looks a lot more like another tax payer revolt to me.

Unless this event differs substantially from others I have seen – my guess would be the opposite to other peoples. I would guess it started with the population widely rebelling against the tax collector and clipping their coins prior to payment. Only after that happened did the state throw in the towel and strike its own coin to the lower standard that had evolved.

That’s just a guess of course – but it is more in line with what people in better known instances actually did. Does anyone have facts to contradict this suggestion?

Rob T

 

Nice ones. I find the siliqua to be a cool denomination, and the word "siliqua" is nice too


Constantius II, Siliqua - Sirmium mint
D N CONSTANTIVS P F AVG, Diademed bust of Constantius right
VOTIS / XXX / MVLTIS / XXXX, in a wreath. SIRM at exergue.
2.07 gr
Ref : Cohen #342, RC #3997



Valentinian I, Siliqua - Constantinople mint, 4th officina
DN VALENTINI - ANVS P F AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VOT V in a laurel wreath, CP.delta at exergue
1.57 gr
Ref : RC # 4097v, RIC IX # 13a, Cohen # 69



Valens, Siliqua - Treveri mint
DN VALENS PF AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VRBS ROMA, Roma seated left, holding victory and sceptre, TRPS at exergue
2.15 gr
Ref : Cohen # 109, Roman coins # 4113



Gratianus, Siliqua - Treveri mint
DN GRATIANVS PF AVG, Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VRBS ROMA, Roma seated left, holding victory and sceptre, TRPS at exergue
2.13 gr
Ref : Cohen # 86, Roman coins # 4133



Valentinianus II, Siliqua - Lyon mint,
D N VALENTINIANVS P F AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VRBS ROMA, Roma seated left, holding victory and sceptre, LVGPS at exergue
1.88 gr
Ref : Roman coins # 4158, Cohen# 76



Theodosius I, Siliqua - Treveri mint, 2nd officina
D N THEODOSIVS P F AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VIRTVS RO MANORVM, Roma seated left, holding Victory and spear, TRPS at exergue
Ref : Cohen # 57, Roman coins # 4176



Magnus Maximus, Siliqua - Treveri mint, 2nd officina
D N MAG MAX IMVS P F AVG, draped, cuirassed and diademed bust right
VIRTVS RO MASORVM (sic !!) Roma seated facing, holding globe and spear.
TRPS at exergue
1.91 gr
Ref : Cohen # 20 var, Roman coins # 4201



Honorius, Siliqua - Mediolanum mint, 2nd officina
DN HONORIVS PF AVG, diademed draped and cuirassed bust right
VIRTVS RO - MANORVM, Roma seated left, holding victory and sceptre, MDPS at exergue
2.09 gr
Ref : Cohen # 59, Roman coins # 4250



Arcadius, Siliqua - Treveri mint, 2nd officina
D N ARCADI VS P F AVG, diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right
VIRTVS RO MANORVM, Roma seated left, holding Victory and spear, TRPS at exergue
Ref : RIC # 106, Roman coins # 4227



Theodosius II, Siliqua - Constantinople mint
D N THEODO SIVS P F AVG, diademed draped and cuirassed bust right seen from front
VOT/XX/MVLT/XXX, within a laurel wreath, CONS* at exergue
2.16 gr, 18.5 mm
RIC X, # 381

Looks like I have ten of them (didn't realize that before)
Q

 

Maybe you should not post all of them at once, but I'd love to see a sample (and I don't think I am the only one).

 

Fascinating series, the siliqua. I have a couple like this one of Julian issued in 361 AD (or CE, as Julian would have undoubtedly preferred). It's pretty dark as most of the ones from the Harptree Hoard frequently are. At 2.7 grams it is still a good chunk of silver Next is one of Valens who bought the farm at Adrianople in 378 AD,

 

My rarest late Roman silver, a heavy miliarense of Theodosius I, from very early following his elevation (23 mm, 4.68 g):

According to the seller it is unpublished and possibly unique. (Admittedly not a beauty...)

My understanding is that the heavy miliarense was often a presentation piece, meaning that this coin has a high chance of having been touched by the emperor himself. Any opinion on that @Valentinian?

 

This is out of my period. Does the silver used to strike the heavy miliarense match the silver used to strike the siliqua in terms of alloy/purity? I find it interesting that the earlier Romans handled the down-valuing of the silver coins by lowering the alloy/purity rather than weight. Had they taken the other track, we would need a microscope to see the last issues of Gallienus.

Does anyone know the relations between the first US silver dollars (in terms of value of metal and purchasing power) and the current US clad or golden dollars? The only time we hear about the melt value of coins is when they point out that it costs more than 5 cents to make a 'nickel'. The Romans were never ready to accept fiat currency. The end of US silver coinage came while I was in school so most of our membership don't remember spending silver. The last US people spending gold are getting fewer every day. My recently deceased mother in law (at 104) remembers seeing gold coins but never had that much money at a time that she actually spent one.

 

Some rarities

VALENS - CONSTANTINOPLE - RIC IX 11e(01)



Heavy siliqua, 364-365, R5

A/ D N VALENS-P F AVG
Dominus Noster Valens pius Felix Augustus, Notre maître Valens Pieux et Heureux Auguste
Buste à gauche, drapé et cuirassé, tête diadémée (Perles).
R/ VOT/V//CONSA
Votis quinquennalibus, Vœux pour le cinquième anniversaire de règne
Légende en 2 lignes dans une couronne de lauriers fermée.

Argent 900/1000, 3.17 Gr / 20.7 mm / 6h
RIC IX 11e(01), RSC 87†a

Comments :
One of the few siliquae with the bust on the left. The copy of the collection has the same reverse and observe dies as the copy of the B.M..

Observed weight of the copy of the British Museum (CGR143765) : 2.83 gr
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/search.aspx?searchText=CGR143765

Fiche de la monnaie sur la base Siliquae

 

Some rarities

THEODOSE IER - AQUILEE - RIC IX NotInRic


Half Siliqua, 383-387, R5

A/ DN THEODO-SIVS PF AVG
Dominus Noster Theodosius Pius Felix Augustus, Notre Seigneur Théodose Pieux Heureux Auguste
Buste à droite, drapé et cuirassé, tête diadémée (Perles).

R/ CONCOR-DIA AVGGG//SMAQP
Concordia Augustorum, La Concorde des 3 augustes
La concorde assise de face, tête tournée à gauche, tenant dans la main droite le globe nicéphore et dans la main gauche une lance renversée, la jambe gauche découverte.

Argent 900/1000, 0.95 Gr / 14.85 mm / 6h
RIC IX NotInRic, RSC manque, MAR MANQUE

Commentaires :
There is no issue of siliqua in the name of Theodosius for this mint with this exergue in SMAQP. Only RIC 25, in AQPS, was issued between 378 and 383 in the name of this prince. At the end of this period, the Aquileia workshop will continue to issue a siliqua on the reverse at the Concordia for Valentinien II: a unique copy has been found and referenced with this mint mark SMAQP.
It is quite plausible that this officina also issued in the name of Theodosius I with these same characteristics. This copy was cropped, and the current weight of 0.95 Gr was to be on the isue at about 1.2-1.3 Gr, that of a half siliqua. We are certainly dealing with an official program of the Aquileia mint.
In addition, the mintissued bronze Ae3 with the same features of observe and reverse (see RIC 32d1)

Fiche de la monnaie sur la base Siliquae

 

Some rarities


JULIEN II - ARLES - RIC VIII 264-Var

Crédit photo : ©Siliquae

Silique, 358-360, R5 A/ D N IVLIANV-S NB CAES Dominus Noster Iulianus Nob caesar, Notre Seigneur Julien Noble César Buste à droite, drapé et cuirassé, tête nue. R/ VOTIS/V/MVLTIS/X//TCON Votis quinquennalibus/Multis decennalibus, Vœux pour le cinquième anniversaire de règne et plus pour les dix ans à venir Légende en 4 lignes dans une couronne de lauriers fermée. Argent 900/1000, Poids : 2.14 Gr / 19.35 mm / 1h RIC VIII 264-Var, RSC manque, FERRANDO II MANQUE

Commentaires :
A copy very close to the official coin, as much by the graphics, the bust or legends, except on the reverse the absence of the "O" in the legend in NB CAES. No legend of this type is listed in the works for Julian II. Either an error of the engraver, or a titulature unknown to the RIC. It only remains to find an identical die of reverse to confirm one or the other of these hypotheses.

It's done at WildWinds:
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/julian_II/_arles_RIC_260v.jpg

Both coins have the same observe but different reverse dies. This argues for an officialization of this legend, unpublished at the RIC and Ferrando.

There is also a bronze on the reverse FEL TEMP REPARATIO, issued by the Rome mint, which also bears this anomaly of legend (see Nummus-Bible http://www.nummus-bible-database.com/connaie-21756.htm )

Fiche de la monnaie sur la base Siliquae

 

Some rarities

THEODOSE IER - LYON - RIC IX 43b(02)-V

Crédit photo : ©Siliquae

Silique, 389-390, R5 A/ D N THEODO-SIVS P F AVG Dominus Noster Theodosius Pius Felix Augustus, Notre Maître Théodose Pieux et Heureux Auguste Buste à droite, drapé et cuirassé, tête diadémée (Perles). R/ VRBS-ROMA//LVGP Urbs Roma, La ville de Rome Rome casquée assise à gauche sur une cuirasse, tenant un globe nicéphore de la main droite et un sceptre long de la main gauche. Argent 900/1000, Poids : 2.28 Gr / 17 mm / 7h RIC IX 43b(02)-V, RSC manque, BASTIEN 212

Comments :
1 copy observed by Bastien (1.66 gr) and not described by the RIC. Same observe and reverse die as the coin of the collection. Plate 212 of Bastien Vol 6


Fiche de la monnaie sur la base Siliquae

 

On the subject of official vs. ad-hoc clipping, in my experience the former is far more common than the latter and happens in many series all around the (ancient) world.
This is a case where surviving late Roman Siliquae in Britain and Gaul after the Roman pull-out were clipped-down officially to the size and weight of the Saxon sceatta - and this (Valentinian I, I assume) siliqua even seems to have been a fourrèe to begin with but was cut down to conform to the sceatta standard just the same.

http://www.stoa.org/gallery/album82/66_Valentinian_I_Sil_FOU?full=1

 

I have a few siliquae to show, which I hope you will find interesting.

The first one I will show is a nice but common VRBS ROMA type for Valens from Trier.

367-375; Trier officina S (2)
18mm at 2.14 g
RIC IX 27b,

This is a pretty typical example of size and weight for the late fourth century.

By way of contrast, here is an earlier "heavy siliqua" of Constantius II
340-351; Nicomedia
VOTIS XXV

As siliquae go this coin is a whopper at 19x21mm and weighing 2.91g.
When these two coins are viewed side by side the difference is immediately apparent:

One might suspect that the Valens had been clipped, but the beading on the reverse suggests that the flan has not been appreciably reduced if at all, and the coin is normal weight for a full sized flan.

Here is another example for Constantius II, this time with the anepigraphic "eyes to heaven" obverse.
337-340; Constantinople, officina <gamma> (3)
This coin also measures 19x21mm, but my scales died before I could get a valid weight.

There was something about it that made me wonder if this had once been in the collection of Alphonse Capone. Not sure about that.
(I was going to show this alongside my avatar coin, but I can't find it just now. Maybe later.)

Finally I thought I would show you one that doesn't come down the pike very often.

This is a siliqua of Vetranio, from Siscia (RIC VIII 267)
VICTORIA AVGVSTORVM reverse; Victory adv left holding wreath and trophy.

This one measures 19x20 mm but weighs 2.29 g. Although it is an age mate to the coins of Constantius II and has a similar flan size, its weight is closer to that of the coin of Valens. It is in fact the more standard module for siliquae of the mid-4th century.