Large Cent Folks – What is the setting for the Enigma Machine

I am venturing into new territory here – Large Cents that is. Alan Turing is not returning my calls and I need some help cracking the Large Cent Code


This post contains the following images


Cad Tracing of 1819 Large Cent Small Date of N4 and N10

Cad Tracing of N4 overlaid onto image of 1819 Large Cent Small Date N3

Cad Tracing of N4 overlaid onto image of 1819 Large Cent Small Date N4

Cad Tracing of N4 overlaid onto image of 1819 Large Cent Small Date N9

Cad Tracing of N4 overlaid onto image of 1819 Large Cent Small Date N10

Cad Tracing of N10 overlaid onto image of 1819 Large Cent Small Date N9

Cad Tracing of N10 overlaid onto image of 1819 Large Cent Small Date N10


The Cad tracings were overlaid onto the images relative to the first “1” in the date.


The N4 Cad tracing overlay of course matches the N4 image.

The N4 Cad tracing overlay also matches the N3 image

The N4 Cad tracing overlay does not match the N9 image

The N4 Cad tracing overlay does not match the N10 image


The N10 Cad tracing overlay of course matches the N10 image.

The N10 Cad tracing overlay does not match the N9 image.


Large Cents are identified by a (N#, R#) reference – what do these mean and how do they relate – to the coin itself? I just don’t understand the code


Of the 4 different coins 3 have differing spreads in their date. So why are all four classified as small date? Is this based solely on the actual size of the numerals used in the date punch as opposed to the spread of those numerals?


On the surface it appears N3 and N4 are the same obverse (well at least have common lineage through the point the date and stars are added to the die). It is my understanding in 1819 these design elements were added to the working die. So what is it that makes them different? Are large cents attributed, identified and cataloged to die state and stages?


Thanks for your help

 

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N-3 and N-4 are both from the same obverse die. N-9 and N-10 are each different obv dies.

The N numbers are "Newcomb" numbers assigned by Howard Rounds Newcomb in his book from 1944 that described the die varieties know at that time. A die variety or die marraige is a unique combination of a given obv die and a given reverse die. In the case of N-3 and N-4 they have the same obv but different rev dies. Die wear and or die stages of the obv die indicate that N-3 was struck before N-4. I'm not sure other than for die use chaining how Newcomb numbered the varieties on the 1816 to 1835 varieties, other than the fact that he copied the numbering of the work of Andews from 1883. For the later varieties the varieties are arranged with N-1 having the date the furthest left and subsequent obverses being further and further right.

The R# is the rarity of the variety based on the "Sheldon " rarity scale that runs from R8 (1 to 3 known) for the rarest to R-1 for the most common (>1,500 estimated to exist)

 

Thanks Condor that clears things up - For some reason I was thinking the N# identified the Obverse Die and the R# identified the Reverse Die. So instead of the listings being N3 and N4 with a rarity, I was thinking they should have been listed as (N3, R1) and (N3, R2).

 

So theoretically every 1819 obverse die could be identified using two triangles with the base of both originating from the center of the two bottom stars. You think ?

 

Haven't seen that attempted, but it would probably work since the stars and date digits are all punched into each die individually by hand. But if you don't have a computer and a cad system how useful would it be? Now if you had such a DB set up on your systen it might be useful for doing attributions of coins on ebay etc.

 

Actually since each number was hand punched, it would take four triangles.

 

It would take 4 triangles to locate each specific digit of the date but I think two would be sufficient enough to differentiate one die from another. Of course four would be better.