Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
US Coins Forum
>
Large Capped Bust Quarters
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="NSP, post: 2860401, member: 74849"]<b>Additional Information about Large Capped Bust Quarters</b></p><p><br /></p><p>In this post I’ll include any addition information about the series that I think would be beneficial to know. This will pertain less to my coins and more to the series as a whole.</p><p><br /></p><p>As a series, capped bust quarters are not very common; the large diameter subseries is particularly uncommon. In <i>Early United States Quarters</i> by Steve Tompkins, the author estimates between 3% and 5% of large capped bust quarters still exist. Obviously this is no hard and fast rule, but considering there were 1,278,584 ever minted, it stands to reason that few still exist. To put this into perspective, only three years of capped bust half dollars between 1815 and 1828 have mintages lower than 1,278,584 (1815, 1817, and 1820). For the sake of argument, if you assume a 4% survival rate, it would amount to about 50,000 large capped bust quarters. PCGS has certified 1881-S Morgan dollars in MS65 nearly 54,000 times by comparison (obviously some of these are resubmissions, but the point still stands, these are not particularly common coins).</p><p><br /></p><p>Many of these met their fate in the 1850s as silver prices rose to the point where the silver in the quarters was worth more than 25 cents. This resulted in many coins being melted and forever lost to history. Minor silver coins were legally reduced in weight in 1853, and many old coins were melted down and struck in the new standard weight.</p><p><br /></p><p>If you are interested in the series, I highly recommend <i>Early United States Quarters, 1796-1838</i> by Steve Tompkins. The book is beautifully illustrated, contains mountains of information about each die marriage and die state, and has plenty of background information about the early U.S. Mint. It contains long chapters about the 1823/2 and 1827/3/2 quarters, and while I’ll almost certainly never own one, it’s very interesting to learn about the history of these classic American rarities. One interesting fact I learned from the book is that in one sale in the 1800s, an 1823/2 was sold in a bulk lot along with a 1796 and an 1804! Little things like that are what puts this book over the top. Here is a link to Tompkins’ book: <a href="http://www.earlyunitedstatescoins.com/store/p1/Early_United_States_Quarters_1796-1838_-_by_Steve_M._Tompkins.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.earlyunitedstatescoins.com/store/p1/Early_United_States_Quarters_1796-1838_-_by_Steve_M._Tompkins.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.earlyunitedstatescoins.com/store/p1/Early_United_States_Quarters_1796-1838_-_by_Steve_M._Tompkins.html</a></p><p><br /></p><p>There is another bust quarter book that is highly recommended as well, <i>Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint 1796-1838,</i> but I have not gotten around to buying a copy of it. If I do get a copy, I will definitely update this thread.</p><p><br /></p><p>If you do not want to get a copy of one of the books, you can use NGC’s website to see images of the different die marriages. They do not provide a written description of the diagnostics, so you will have to compare all of the images to your coin and pick out what’s different between them until you find one that matches. This can be tedious, but I managed to do this before I got the Tompkins book. Here is the link: <a href="https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/twenty-cents-and-quarters/draped-bust-and-capped-bust-quarters-vscid-10/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/twenty-cents-and-quarters/draped-bust-and-capped-bust-quarters-vscid-10/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/twenty-cents-and-quarters/draped-bust-and-capped-bust-quarters-vscid-10/</a></p><p><br /></p><p> There’s no perfect online location for the rarity ratings, but if you go to the old CoinFacts website you can find rarity ratings that are pretty decent. Obviously the ratings are old, but for the most part they are the same (or close) to what the Tompkins book list, and they’re better than nothing. Here is that link: <a href="http://coinfacts.com/quarter_dollars/capped_bust_quarters/capped_bust_quarter_dollars.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://coinfacts.com/quarter_dollars/capped_bust_quarters/capped_bust_quarter_dollars.html" rel="nofollow">http://coinfacts.com/quarter_dollars/capped_bust_quarters/capped_bust_quarter_dollars.html</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Below are random “fun facts” about the series that I couldn’t put anywhere else but thought they may pique your interest.</p><p><br /></p><p>· The die marriages are named for Ard W. Browning, the author of <i>Early Quarter Dollars of the United States 1796–1838,</i> published in 1925.</p><p><br /></p><p>· An order from the Planters Bank in New Orleans in 1815 spurred the minting of quarters for the first time since 1807. Tompkins asserts that without this order, the quarter dollar denomination could have slowly drifted away, never to be made again.</p><p><br /></p><p>· A batch of 1815 quarters were delivered the day before a fire destroyed the rolling mill that the mint used to prepare planchets for silver and gold coins. This is what no gold or silver coins were struck bearing the date 1816.</p><p><br /></p><p>· Some 1815 and 1825 quarters were counterstamped with either an “E” or an “L” above Liberty’s cap. There are many theories about these counterstamps, but they remain a mystery. Tompkins discusses these in his book.</p><p><br /></p><p>· There are no quarters dated 1816, 1817, or 1826. None were made in 1829 or 1830 either; in 1831 the diameter was reduced to 24.3 millimeters and production of small capped bust quarters began.</p><p><br /></p><p>· The 1820 small 0 quarters were actually minted in 1821, as evidenced by certain die cracks.</p><p><br /></p><p>· 1821 Browning-6 was the rarest die marriage of large capped bust quarters until this year. Somehow there is an MS65 example of this very rare variety that nobody noticed for the better part of 200 years. This baffles me. You can see the coin here: <a href="http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/38968" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/38968" rel="nofollow">http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/38968</a></p><p><br /></p><p>· As alluded to above, the 1821 B-6 was dethroned this year by the newly discovered 1822 B-3. This coin sports the same reverse as the 1823/2 with the broken arrowhead and broken arrow shaft. This reverse is very noticeable, so if it took 195 years to find an example, it must be extremely rare. After striking the 1823/2, the reverse die was re-engraved to fill in missing parts of the design. It was then used to strike quarters dated 1824, 1825, and 1828. Here is 1822 B-3 in all its glory: <a href="https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5991/1822-quarter-dollar-variety/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5991/1822-quarter-dollar-variety/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5991/1822-quarter-dollar-variety/</a> .</p><p><br /></p><p>· One day, an engraver preparing a quarter reverse die had a bad day and accidentally punched “50 C.” instead of “25 C.” The engraver repunched the die with the correct denomination. Fast forward a few years, and this die got used to make the 1822 25/50 quarters. Fast forward a few more years, and the same die got used again in 1828. The overdenomination is clearly visible, even on heavily worn examples. I am sad I do not own one, but probably not as sad as the engraver was when they kept bringing his blundered die into service.</p><p><br /></p><p>· The 1827/3/2 quarters were actually struck with the same obverse die as the 1823/2 quarters. Usually overdates are made from unused, unhardened dies, but this is an exception.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>That’s it from me. Thank you for reading and taking part in my excitement! Feel free to post questions, comments, and your own large capped bust quarters![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="NSP, post: 2860401, member: 74849"][B]Additional Information about Large Capped Bust Quarters[/B] In this post I’ll include any addition information about the series that I think would be beneficial to know. This will pertain less to my coins and more to the series as a whole. As a series, capped bust quarters are not very common; the large diameter subseries is particularly uncommon. In [I]Early United States Quarters[/I] by Steve Tompkins, the author estimates between 3% and 5% of large capped bust quarters still exist. Obviously this is no hard and fast rule, but considering there were 1,278,584 ever minted, it stands to reason that few still exist. To put this into perspective, only three years of capped bust half dollars between 1815 and 1828 have mintages lower than 1,278,584 (1815, 1817, and 1820). For the sake of argument, if you assume a 4% survival rate, it would amount to about 50,000 large capped bust quarters. PCGS has certified 1881-S Morgan dollars in MS65 nearly 54,000 times by comparison (obviously some of these are resubmissions, but the point still stands, these are not particularly common coins). Many of these met their fate in the 1850s as silver prices rose to the point where the silver in the quarters was worth more than 25 cents. This resulted in many coins being melted and forever lost to history. Minor silver coins were legally reduced in weight in 1853, and many old coins were melted down and struck in the new standard weight. If you are interested in the series, I highly recommend [I]Early United States Quarters, 1796-1838[/I] by Steve Tompkins. The book is beautifully illustrated, contains mountains of information about each die marriage and die state, and has plenty of background information about the early U.S. Mint. It contains long chapters about the 1823/2 and 1827/3/2 quarters, and while I’ll almost certainly never own one, it’s very interesting to learn about the history of these classic American rarities. One interesting fact I learned from the book is that in one sale in the 1800s, an 1823/2 was sold in a bulk lot along with a 1796 and an 1804! Little things like that are what puts this book over the top. Here is a link to Tompkins’ book: [url]http://www.earlyunitedstatescoins.com/store/p1/Early_United_States_Quarters_1796-1838_-_by_Steve_M._Tompkins.html[/url] There is another bust quarter book that is highly recommended as well, [I]Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint 1796-1838,[/I] but I have not gotten around to buying a copy of it. If I do get a copy, I will definitely update this thread. If you do not want to get a copy of one of the books, you can use NGC’s website to see images of the different die marriages. They do not provide a written description of the diagnostics, so you will have to compare all of the images to your coin and pick out what’s different between them until you find one that matches. This can be tedious, but I managed to do this before I got the Tompkins book. Here is the link: [url]https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/twenty-cents-and-quarters/draped-bust-and-capped-bust-quarters-vscid-10/[/url] There’s no perfect online location for the rarity ratings, but if you go to the old CoinFacts website you can find rarity ratings that are pretty decent. Obviously the ratings are old, but for the most part they are the same (or close) to what the Tompkins book list, and they’re better than nothing. Here is that link: [url]http://coinfacts.com/quarter_dollars/capped_bust_quarters/capped_bust_quarter_dollars.html[/url] Below are random “fun facts” about the series that I couldn’t put anywhere else but thought they may pique your interest. · The die marriages are named for Ard W. Browning, the author of [I]Early Quarter Dollars of the United States 1796–1838,[/I] published in 1925. · An order from the Planters Bank in New Orleans in 1815 spurred the minting of quarters for the first time since 1807. Tompkins asserts that without this order, the quarter dollar denomination could have slowly drifted away, never to be made again. · A batch of 1815 quarters were delivered the day before a fire destroyed the rolling mill that the mint used to prepare planchets for silver and gold coins. This is what no gold or silver coins were struck bearing the date 1816. · Some 1815 and 1825 quarters were counterstamped with either an “E” or an “L” above Liberty’s cap. There are many theories about these counterstamps, but they remain a mystery. Tompkins discusses these in his book. · There are no quarters dated 1816, 1817, or 1826. None were made in 1829 or 1830 either; in 1831 the diameter was reduced to 24.3 millimeters and production of small capped bust quarters began. · The 1820 small 0 quarters were actually minted in 1821, as evidenced by certain die cracks. · 1821 Browning-6 was the rarest die marriage of large capped bust quarters until this year. Somehow there is an MS65 example of this very rare variety that nobody noticed for the better part of 200 years. This baffles me. You can see the coin here: [url]http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/38968[/url] · As alluded to above, the 1821 B-6 was dethroned this year by the newly discovered 1822 B-3. This coin sports the same reverse as the 1823/2 with the broken arrowhead and broken arrow shaft. This reverse is very noticeable, so if it took 195 years to find an example, it must be extremely rare. After striking the 1823/2, the reverse die was re-engraved to fill in missing parts of the design. It was then used to strike quarters dated 1824, 1825, and 1828. Here is 1822 B-3 in all its glory: [url]https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5991/1822-quarter-dollar-variety/[/url] . · One day, an engraver preparing a quarter reverse die had a bad day and accidentally punched “50 C.” instead of “25 C.” The engraver repunched the die with the correct denomination. Fast forward a few years, and this die got used to make the 1822 25/50 quarters. Fast forward a few more years, and the same die got used again in 1828. The overdenomination is clearly visible, even on heavily worn examples. I am sad I do not own one, but probably not as sad as the engraver was when they kept bringing his blundered die into service. · The 1827/3/2 quarters were actually struck with the same obverse die as the 1823/2 quarters. Usually overdates are made from unused, unhardened dies, but this is an exception. That’s it from me. Thank you for reading and taking part in my excitement! Feel free to post questions, comments, and your own large capped bust quarters![/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
US Coins Forum
>
Large Capped Bust Quarters
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...