Langbord case: What are those 1933 Saint-Gaudens double eagles worth?

We know what the coins grade since Numismatic Guaranty Corp. reported Nov. 3, 2009, that it had graded one coin Mint State 66, two MS-65, six MS-64 and one with an NGC Uncirculated Details, Improperly Cleaned grade.

When pricing any object, one first looks at comparables — other objects of similar type and quality and the prices they sold for. In 2002, the 1933 double eagle allegedly owned by Egypt’s King Farouk sold for $7,590,000 at auction. It graded MS-65 and was — and currently is — the only 1933 double eagle that can be legally owned by an individual.

So if the coins are ruled private property, are the “Langbord 10” worth around $7 million each? Continue at:


http://www.coinworld.com/voices/steve-roach/2015/04/langbord_case_what.html

FROM COIN WORLD

 

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Interesting article. Thanks.

I think they might be wise to sell them off one at a time. Put the others all together and charge a museum somewhere to display them.

 

Ditto!

Chris

 

Just t spice up our discussion o this we could say there is more than one way to look at this.

One might argue, since FDR with his kingly edict outlawed all private ownership of gold coins in 1933, aren't all gold coins of the United States of any date illegal to hold?

or, One might argue, that since FDR's actions were in reality unconstitutional and constituted illegal seizure of private property thru his federal raids on privately held safe deposit boxes during his declared "bank holiday" that he overstepped his authority and the federal government needs to restore value of seized assets to all families that were affected.

or, One might argue, that the “Langbord 10” are, and have been privately, and legally, owned without government challenge since 1933, are indeed now private property and the government has no claim to them ... of course this last argument is what i,s and has been, argued in court for the past few years ... but when the "independent judge" deciding this matter is biased and an arm of the thief (aka feds) we all know how this will be decided.

As for me, if they ever put me on a jury, or bench position as judge, to decide on ownership of such coins as the “Langbord 10” I would find for the Langbord family and against the government's claim.

 

Will this be the last we here of the Government's claim on them ?

 

I agree, but you and I would probably be kicked off the panel during voir dire.

Chris

 

I think what's going to sell these coins more than anything, is going to be the story. There's a good chance that non-coin collectors will be the big buyers who are willing to pay that amount of money. Most for sure the family has been looking for buyers since day one. I wonder if he only obtained 10 coins. Who knows if he obtained more, sold some and could still be sitting in collections. I was looking, the average wage in 1933 was $1,500 bucks. So even just one $20 gold piece was a big deal to put away in a collection.


ANNUAL INCOME 1932-1934
Airline Pilot $8,000
Airline Stewardess $1,500
Apartment House Superintendent $1,500
Bituminous Coal Miner $1,500
Bus Driver $1,373
Chauffeur $624
Civil Service Employee $1,280
College Teacher $3,111
Construction Worker $907
Dentist $2,391
Department Store Model $936
Doctor $3,382
Dressmaker $780
Electrical Worker $1,559
Engineer $2,520
Fire Chief (30,000 - 50,000 pop) $2,075
Hired Farm Hand $216
Hired Gun $5,200
Housemother - Boys School $780 Lawyer $4,218
Live-in-maid $260
Mayor (30,000 - 50,000 pop) $2,317
Pharmaceutical Salesman $1,500
Police Chief (30,000-50,000 pop) $2,636
Priest $831
Public School Teacher $1,227
Publicity Agent $1,800
Railroad Executive $5,064
Railroad Conductor $2,729
Registered Nurse $936
Secretary $1,040
Statistician $1,820
Steel Worker $423
Stenographer - Bookkeeper $936
Textile Worker $433
United States Congressman $8,663
Waiters $520
Average salary $1,368

 

John59, please go back and edit your first post and possibly #8 which looks like a cut and paste also, to just an introductory paragraph and then a URL for the rest. Copy/paste should not be an entire portion #1, nor excessive #8, as they have been published and presumed copyright protection. Thanks. Jim
just click the word edit at the bottom of each of the posts before it locks.

 

No because there was an exception in the order. They could hold gold coins considered to be "rare or unusual". And what did that mean? Rare and unusual was defined to mean any gold coin made before I believe April 5, 1933. (Except you couldn't have more that four quarter eagles of the same date and mint. Don't ask me why that weird restriction was in there.) Which actually meant that the people could have actually held onto just about all of their gold coins.

The exception was not in the original draft of the order. it was added through the influence of the Sec of the Treasury, William Woodin. He was a good friend of Roosevelt, and a coin collector who happened to collect gold coins. The exception was put in so his buddy could keep his collection and add to it.

As far as I know no assets were ever seized from any safe deposit boxes. People could not access them during the bank holiday, but even for those banks that closed the people got their box contents back. (The contents were not assets of the bank.)

He obtained at least 20 (General consensus among collectors and dealers in the early 1970's was that he had 25.) The nine coins the government rounded up in the mid 1940's and the Farouk coin all traced back to Izzy as well. So there are those ten, and the ten Lanbord coins. Plus it is a picture from 1980 of one that does not match any of the previous ones. Also there is some question as to whether the Fenton coin really is the Farouk coin. A couple people who were at the 1954 Farouk sale have said it is not the same coin that was in the sale.

 

I put at the bottom it came from coin world. However I cannot edit the post for some reason. Here is the link: http://www.coinworld.com/voices/steve-roach/2015/04/langbord_case_what.html

 

Like I said before, no one is going to really know how many are out there.

 

I wouldn't consider 10 coins a radical increase. Take a look at the sales history of the Cheerios Dollar.

http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page20c.html

Granted, it's not a multimillion dollar coin, but there are a heck of a lot more floating around the marketplace, and it hasn't seemed to affect their prices.

You also have to keep in mind that there are not just millionaire collectors who covet coins like these. There are corporate collectors, too.

Chris

 

When and if they go up for sale, we'll know what the prices will bring. I personally think that it will stay in the millions.

 

Ten coins are not a radical increase and I would be willing to bet they do, indeed bring top dollar. These are the kind of coins that billionaires buy and put away for long term. Especially the Sauds who have been known to bid outrageous prices for American rarities.

 

It only takes 11 people in the world who don't have a 1933 double eagle, want one, and can afford to spend several million dollars on one to drive the price up. I'm willing to bet there's enough demand for even the details coin to go over $1M, and I wouldn't be surprised if the others hit at least $5M. I'd guess total market value for all 10 might be around $30M?

 

Until they have the coins in hand they ain't worth jack. Ya'll really believe these folks are going to get their coins back. What's that acronym everyone uses? LOL, ROFL, something like that.

 

No.
In FDR's original gold confiscation order, all gold coins of numismatic and/or historical importance were exempted. Moreover, as of December 31, 1974, all restrictions on gold ownership by Americans were rescinded.

 

Median income appeared to be about $3,000 according to the IRS:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/32soirepar.pdf

I agree, very few people had enough disposable income to hoard a $20 DE or even a $20 bill.