Lame. . . . >:I

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Johndakerftw, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Johndakerftw

    Johndakerftw Mr. Rogers is My Hero

    Happy Saturday, dudes and dudettes!

    My bro has this really cool bronze finger from a statue that was found in Cordoba.

    He had it in a membrane box so air couldn't get at it. However, this is the result :banghead::

    Attachment-1 (7).jpeg Attachment-2 (4).jpeg Attachment-3.jpeg

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Btw, Minions pwn!

    Thanks yo!

    Erin
     
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    What did it look like before storage in the membrane box?

    I'm guessing you're rightfully concerned about the light blue-green stuff. I'd give it a few soaks in homemade sodium sesquicarbonate and then distilled water soaks, followed by a thorough drying.

    Verdicare is another possibility but the corrosion looks extensive so I'd go with sodium sesquicarbonate (a mixture of baking soda and washing soda).

    Some articles about treating bronze disease (some with the recipe for the above concoction):

    http://www.accla.org/actaaccla/bronzediseasetherapy.html

    http://www.bitsofhistory.com/info/bronze_disease.html

    http://www.crescentcitycoinclub.org/seminars_and_programs/Bronze Disease.pdf

    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Bronze Disease

    http://www.collector-antiquities.co...estoring-and-conservation/bronze-disease.html
     
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  4. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    That's bronze disease.

    Bronze disease is a self-sustaining chemical reaction that will continue until the bronze is exhausted. Any exposure to oxygen and water molecules will sustain the reaction. You can read more about this on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_disease

    Others on this site will be able to help you treat the item to eliminate the residue that causes this chemical reaction. If you don't do so, and are unable to store the item in an oxygen- or moisture-free environment, all the copper will be consumed and the item will eventually disintegrate.

    Edit: BTW, storage in a membrane box won't necessarily prevent oxygen and water molecules from penetrating through the membrane and continuing the reaction.
     
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  5. Smojo

    Smojo dreamliner

    That sucks Erin
    Tiff has the right idea. I've never done the method on a finger before but have had good results with coins.
    Once cured and dried put a coat of verdi care and let it dry in good.
    Good luck
     
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  6. Johndakerftw

    Johndakerftw Mr. Rogers is My Hero

    Thanks everyone.

    My brother thought he was doing good thing by putting it in a membrane box because no oxygen or anything can get in. But, I guess a bit of nasty stuff had been in it. It looked better when he first put it in. He kept it in his drawer, which was cool and dark. :(

    I've been trying to find washing soda by itself, but I'm not having much luck. It's an ingredient in some laundry detergent, but that's about it.

    I live in a small town and won't have access to a Walmart or anything until possibly Monday.

    This flipping sucks.:rage:

    Erin
     
  7. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Many grocery stores and local hardware stores carry washing soda, and they all carry baking soda. It would be worth a couple of phone calls if you can't wait to get started.

    Good luck!
     
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I had trouble finding it locally too but the hardware store had it.

    Grocery stores often have washing soda in the laundry aisle. Arm & Hammer's washing soda is 100% sodium carbonate (that's what you want). This is the brand you're most likely to find in a US store.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Johndakerftw

    Johndakerftw Mr. Rogers is My Hero

    Until I can get some baking and washing soda, should I soak it in distilled water? We have some of that.

    We have a little over a week before we head to Newfoundland for two weeks, so we want to deal with this as best we can before we go.

    Thanks!

    Erin
     
  10. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Distilled water can potentially help but is probably unnecessary at this point if you'll be using the sodium sesquicarbonate methods mentioned above soon. Really you just want to keep it bone dry to stop the stuff from spreading and you want to get a solution in place before you leave for Newfoundland. I recommend getting some sort of dessicants and Amazon usually has a good selection if you can't find them locally.

    As far as why the membrane box didn't work, there was probably some humidity trapped in there and the membrane held it tight to the surface, helping the BD to form instead of protecting the artifact. I would recommend instead storing it in something like an archival paper envelope or even in the open in a small box with plenty of dessicants to keep the humidity down.
     
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  11. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    I, too, would recommend this approach to storing the item. Here's why: unless you're 100%, absolutely certain that (1) the artifact is free of bronze disease, and (2) the membrane box is 100% impermeable by oxygen and water, you run the risk that storing it in the membrane box will exacerbate the problem by trapping oxygen and moisture close to the artifact.

    Instead, a closed box with an effective desiccant will keep the moisture low enough so that any further degradation by bronze disease is kept to a minimum. Change the desiccant frequently.

    Of course, the best solution is to completely eliminate the bronze disease currently attacking the item, but that can be hard to do.
     
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  12. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Gotta ask...what is a membrane box??? A thought occurred to me that burying it in a bowl of dry rice might help if you have no other desicant (drying out wet cellphones).
     
  13. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    I assume OP is referring to something like this. Basically the item is sandwiched between to clear membranes of something like thick saran wrap, which holds it in place.
     
  14. Johndakerftw

    Johndakerftw Mr. Rogers is My Hero

    That's exactly it, red spork. Lesson has definitely been learned here!

    Would a cardboard jewelry box box work? Like this?

    Attachment-1 (8).jpeg

    Erin
     
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  15. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    After the artifact has been thoroughly cleaned of bronze disease, I wouldn't hesitate to store it in that container WITH an effective desiccant.

    Check it regularly to ensure that it remains free of bronze disease, and change the desiccant periodically according to any recommendations that came with the desiccant.
     
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