L. Cornelius Sulla and L. Manius Torquatus AR Denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by willkerrs, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. willkerrs

    willkerrs Active Member

    New one in my collection: L. Cornelius Sulla and L. Manlius Torquatus AR Denarius, 82 BC, Crawford 367/3.
    A very slightly uncommon denarius (although not -that- hard to find), but I like to think I have a decent example of the type. Although far nicer examples exist, of course, I’ve seen way way worse ones more commonly, with rather poor surfaces being the usual issue.
    This one was clearly well struck - a slight naivety on the edge (left on obv., right on rev.), but otherwise nice.
    It’s slightly worn, sure, but it retains a decent enough relief, especially on the rev.
    Note also the hints of gold iridescence on the obv. especially around the chariot and horses’ rears.

    Do you agree with my assessment? I’d also love to see your examples of the type!
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  3. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Very nice example of this historical issue! It was minted during Sulla's (in)famous march on Rome.

    Screen Shot 2018-10-31 at 9.11.33 AM.jpg
  4. willkerrs

    willkerrs Active Member

    Hm, most coins of the type seem to have an issue with stretching of the metal. I wonder why that is and if it is inherent to the type for some reason. Similarly, I note on the F. Cornelius Sulla 56BC ‘Capture of Jugurtha’ (Crawford 426/1), many (if not most) examples show evidence of a weak strike on the obverse.
    Bing likes this.
  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Nice coin.

    Sulla was a fascinating Imperator / Consul / Dictator during the Roman Republican era. He was an interesting opponent of Marius. What made Sulla unusual in my eyes was his RETIRING from his Dictator position, rather than dying or being killed off.
    RR Manlius Torquatus L. Corn Sulla 82 BCE AR den 17mm 3.7g Mil mint w Sulla. Roma - Sulla triumpl quadriga vict wreath Cr 367-3 Syd 759 S 286
  6. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian Supporter

    A very nice coin to be sure, but what do you mean by a "slight naivety" on the edge?
  7. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  8. willkerrs

    willkerrs Active Member

    I mean the coin has some imperfections on the side. You can see how the metal has stretched. As I say, and as the above examples show, it’s common to this type.
  9. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus Supporter

    A nice example. I have been after one of these for a while. I just have not found the right one yet.
    Alegandron likes this.
  10. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Indeed, a great example
  11. willkerrs

    willkerrs Active Member

    Same here. I could only find ones that were either terrible examples or exceptionally fine examples selling way above what I’d be willing to pay for them. I got this one for a fair price.
    Orfew likes this.
  12. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    Nice coin and nice assessment. One of my favorite scoundrels from this period.
    CollageMaker Plus_201845214649865.png
  13. Valentinian

    Valentinian Supporter! Supporter

    @willkerrs , your coin is very nice.

    As the examples above show, the flan is often a bit small for the design. It needs near-perfect centering to get the chariot and driver, Victory flying, all four horses, and the exergual legend on the flan. Mine does not manage it all:

  14. willkerrs

    willkerrs Active Member

    The reverse on your example is nice, though!
    The toning looks good, too.
  15. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    Don't have one but love it! The steeds always bring to mind the "Rockettes" chorus line....ah, for the old days! :happy:
  16. Multatuli

    Multatuli Homo numismaticus Supporter

    Awesome coins! I have one:
    217F211C-CE75-49C2-A0AF-98A4AA2F1508.jpeg C208BCB8-691C-415D-9DEA-819371242917.jpeg
    Theodosius, TIF, dlhill132 and 4 others like this.
  17. Dafydd

    Dafydd Well-Known Member

    Theodosius, Multatuli, Orfew and 4 others like this.
  18. Valentinian

    Valentinian Supporter! Supporter

    The Aureo & Calico auction of superb Republican coins closed today. They had one of this type:


    It is very nice for the type. But, are you willing to pay the premium for that last little bit of sharpness?

    What premium?

    How about the price realized: 6500 euros hammer, plus 18% buyer's fee (plus shipping)!
    Theodosius, Multatuli and Alegandron like this.
  19. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    I had some weak prebids in today's A&C auction but unsurprisingly none were anywhere near enough.

    Wednesday is a terrible day for auctions since I'm at work. I prebid this time to reduce stress but prebidding means means no flexibility, no chance of snatching an underappreciated lot. Stupidly, I watched bits and pieces of the auction and clicked bid on a coin I thought I'd vetted yesterday. The coin was going for a reasonable price. When on the block the image is a thumbnail and I didn't have time to go to another page and enlarge the picture. It wasn't the example I remembered. I shouldn't have bid and shouldn't have spent money on a coin I don't love. At least it wasn't terribly expensive.
    Carausius, Theodosius and Multatuli like this.
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