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<p>[QUOTE="Ryro, post: 3227001, member: 91461"]Not remembering the story I looked it up on wiki and have pasted it below. Soooo, is the wine skin slung over his shoulder a reference to he himself having been skinned to be used as a wine skin?</p><p><font size="4"><b><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marsyas&action=edit&section=4" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marsyas&action=edit&section=4" rel="nofollow">Edit</a></b></font></p><p>In the contest between Apollo and Marsyas, the terms stated that the winner could treat the defeated party any way he wanted. The contest was judged by the <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse" rel="nofollow">Muses</a>,<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-11" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-11" rel="nofollow">[11]</a> Marsyas played his flute, which Put everyone there into a frenzy, and they started dancing wildly. When it was Apollo's turn, he played his lyre so beautifully that everyone was still and had tears in their eyes. The match ended in a draw.</p><p><br /></p><p>Some accounts state that, to decide the winner, Apollo played his lyre upside down, and because Marsyas couldn't do that with his flute, he lost.</p><p><br /></p><p>Other account states that Apollo lent his beautiful voice, against which Marsyas couldn't compete, and hence lost the match.<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-12" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-12" rel="nofollow">[12]</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Yet another version states that Marsyas played the flute out of tune, and hence accepted his defeat. Out of shame, he assigned to himself the penalty of being skinned for a winesack.<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-13" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-13" rel="nofollow">[13]</a></p><p><br /></p><p>He was <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying" rel="nofollow">flayed</a> alive in a cave near Celaenae for his <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris" rel="nofollow">hubris</a> to challenge a god. Apollo then nailed Marsyas' skin to a pine tree,<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-14" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-14" rel="nofollow">[14]</a> near <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lake_Aulocrene&action=edit&redlink=1" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lake_Aulocrene&action=edit&redlink=1" rel="nofollow">Lake Aulocrene</a> (the Turkish <i>Karakuyu Gölü</i>), which <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabo" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabo" rel="nofollow">Strabo</a> noted was full of the <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_(plant)" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_(plant)" rel="nofollow">reeds</a> from which the pipes were fashioned.<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-15" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-15" rel="nofollow">[15]</a> <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diodorus_Siculus" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diodorus_Siculus" rel="nofollow">Diodorus Siculus</a> felt that Apollo must have repented this "excessive" deed, and said that he had laid aside his lyre for a while,<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-16" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-16" rel="nofollow">[16]</a> but <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Kerenyi" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Kerenyi" rel="nofollow">Karl Kerenyi</a> observes of the flaying of Marsyas' "shaggy hide: a penalty which will not seem especially cruel if one assumes that Marsyas' animal guise was merely a masquerade."<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-17" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-17" rel="nofollow">[17]</a>Classical Greeks were unaware of such <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman" rel="nofollow">shamanistic</a> overtones, and the Flaying of Marsyas became a theme for painting and sculpture. His brothers, nymphs, gods and goddesses mourned his death, and their tears, according to <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovid" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovid" rel="nofollow">Ovid</a>'s <i><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphoses" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphoses" rel="nofollow">Metamorphoses</a></i>, were the source of the river <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marsyas_(river_of_Phrygia)&action=edit&redlink=1" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marsyas_(river_of_Phrygia)&action=edit&redlink=1" rel="nofollow">Marsyas</a> in <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygia" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygia" rel="nofollow">Phrygia</a>, which joins the <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCy%C3%BCk_Menderes_River" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCy%C3%BCk_Menderes_River" rel="nofollow">Meander</a> near Celaenae, where Herodotus reported that the flayed skin of Marsyas was still to be seen,<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-18" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-18" rel="nofollow">[18]</a> and <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy_Hephaestion" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy_Hephaestion" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy Hephaestion</a> recorded a "festival of Apollo, where the skins of all those victims one has flayed are offered to the god."<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-19" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-19" rel="nofollow">[19]</a> <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato" rel="nofollow">Plato</a> was of the opinion that it had been made into a <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wineskin" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wineskin" rel="nofollow">wineskin</a>.<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-20" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-20" rel="nofollow">[20]</a></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apollo_flaying_Marsyas_by_Antonio_Corradini_(1658-1752),_V%26A.JPG" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apollo_flaying_Marsyas_by_Antonio_Corradini_(1658-1752),_V%26A.JPG" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Apollo_flaying_Marsyas_by_Antonio_Corradini_%281658-1752%29%2C_V%26A.JPG/220px-Apollo_flaying_Marsyas_by_Antonio_Corradini_%281658-1752%29%2C_V%26A.JPG" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a></p><p><i>Apollo flaying Marsyas</i> by Antonio Corradini (1658–1752), <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_and_Albert_Museum" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_and_Albert_Museum" rel="nofollow">Victoria and Albert Museum</a>, <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London" rel="nofollow">London</a>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Ryro, post: 3227001, member: 91461"]Not remembering the story I looked it up on wiki and have pasted it below. Soooo, is the wine skin slung over his shoulder a reference to he himself having been skinned to be used as a wine skin? [SIZE=4][B][URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marsyas&action=edit§ion=4']Edit[/URL][/B][/SIZE] In the contest between Apollo and Marsyas, the terms stated that the winner could treat the defeated party any way he wanted. The contest was judged by the [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse']Muses[/URL],[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-11'][11][/URL] Marsyas played his flute, which Put everyone there into a frenzy, and they started dancing wildly. When it was Apollo's turn, he played his lyre so beautifully that everyone was still and had tears in their eyes. The match ended in a draw. Some accounts state that, to decide the winner, Apollo played his lyre upside down, and because Marsyas couldn't do that with his flute, he lost. Other account states that Apollo lent his beautiful voice, against which Marsyas couldn't compete, and hence lost the match.[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-12'][12][/URL] Yet another version states that Marsyas played the flute out of tune, and hence accepted his defeat. Out of shame, he assigned to himself the penalty of being skinned for a winesack.[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-13'][13][/URL] He was [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying']flayed[/URL] alive in a cave near Celaenae for his [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris']hubris[/URL] to challenge a god. Apollo then nailed Marsyas' skin to a pine tree,[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-14'][14][/URL] near [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lake_Aulocrene&action=edit&redlink=1']Lake Aulocrene[/URL] (the Turkish [I]Karakuyu Gölü[/I]), which [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabo']Strabo[/URL] noted was full of the [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_(plant)']reeds[/URL] from which the pipes were fashioned.[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-15'][15][/URL] [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diodorus_Siculus']Diodorus Siculus[/URL] felt that Apollo must have repented this "excessive" deed, and said that he had laid aside his lyre for a while,[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-16'][16][/URL] but [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Kerenyi']Karl Kerenyi[/URL] observes of the flaying of Marsyas' "shaggy hide: a penalty which will not seem especially cruel if one assumes that Marsyas' animal guise was merely a masquerade."[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-17'][17][/URL]Classical Greeks were unaware of such [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman']shamanistic[/URL] overtones, and the Flaying of Marsyas became a theme for painting and sculpture. His brothers, nymphs, gods and goddesses mourned his death, and their tears, according to [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovid']Ovid[/URL]'s [I][URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphoses']Metamorphoses[/URL][/I], were the source of the river [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marsyas_(river_of_Phrygia)&action=edit&redlink=1']Marsyas[/URL] in [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygia']Phrygia[/URL], which joins the [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCy%C3%BCk_Menderes_River']Meander[/URL] near Celaenae, where Herodotus reported that the flayed skin of Marsyas was still to be seen,[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-18'][18][/URL] and [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy_Hephaestion']Ptolemy Hephaestion[/URL] recorded a "festival of Apollo, where the skins of all those victims one has flayed are offered to the god."[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-19'][19][/URL] [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato']Plato[/URL] was of the opinion that it had been made into a [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wineskin']wineskin[/URL].[URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#cite_note-20'][20][/URL] [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apollo_flaying_Marsyas_by_Antonio_Corradini_(1658-1752),_V%26A.JPG'][IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Apollo_flaying_Marsyas_by_Antonio_Corradini_%281658-1752%29%2C_V%26A.JPG/220px-Apollo_flaying_Marsyas_by_Antonio_Corradini_%281658-1752%29%2C_V%26A.JPG[/IMG][/URL] [I]Apollo flaying Marsyas[/I] by Antonio Corradini (1658–1752), [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_and_Albert_Museum']Victoria and Albert Museum[/URL], [URL='https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London']London[/URL][/QUOTE]
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