Kicked off the eBay boards AGAIN (this time, 30 days) c/o SGS "graded" coins!!

eBay limits the number of users that a member can place on their banned list to 150 and my guess is that Aboncom is pretty close to being full, with as many negs as they have! So I guess eBay could object in a roundabout way! lol

 

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My wife likes to purchase coins for me on ebay from time to time, and its gotten so bad with these cheap shysters and their products that I've told her not to touch anything in a slab thats not form PCGS, NGC, or ANACS. Them I trust to grade responsibly, the rest are either hit and miss or just downright deceptive, especially all these "home-grown" TPGs

 

Amen

MOEN, thanks for the very civil , level headed post. Makes me proud to be a member of this board.

 

Yes we can, This is a copy of what I sent to Ebay, You'll have fun if you check out what I discovered.

Listing Violations > Fraudulent listings (illegal seller demands, you didn't receive item, etc) > You suspect that a listing is fraudulent you didn't bid

Item number(s):
8422447799
8423028837


Message: These two item numbers are selling the same item, (not similar items but the exact same item) by two different sellers. I maintain that it is the same seller using two accounts. I thought that was not allowed on Ebay.

Note seller 1, ABON item number 8422447799

Note seller 2, AMERICAN COIN PLUS item number 8423028837

Now note the pictures used for each sale. The picture although tampered with to remove the identification numbers on the coin's holder can still be identified as the same picture. That means to me that this person is fraudulently listing the same item under two names. They can't possibly send the same coins to two winners.

On each picture, the identifying marks showing that they are the same is as follows and can be seen on each even though the one picture was reduced in size:

1.) On the upper label where the date is listed, 2006 D, there is a weak spot in the print on the upper portion of the D on each picture.

2.) On the lower portion of the labeling on the coin to the left, The RAD of the word GRADING is weak and can be seen on both.

3.) The flash of light on the coin on the right is identical in both pictures.

This is beyond coincidence these are in fact, the same coins listed in two different places by the same person under two different accounts. That is blatant fraud.

I reported what looks like fraud on AMERICAN COIN PLUS yesterday pertaining to listing the same coins habitually more than once. I also notice that ABON does the same practice. Note item numbers 8421151275 and 8423297301 Although the identifying serial numbers were removed using a photo program, the coins can still be seen to be identical in two ways.

1.) There are small black marks inside the "slabs" that are identical to both.

2.) As you know, you can right click on an image to save it to your computer. If you right click to save the image from each item number (8421151275 and 8423297301) the images have the same name. That indicates that the seeler didn't even bother to change the names of the pictures before he listed this item a number of times.

Please do not look the other way, that seems to be your tendency on these fraud situations.

I look forward to your response.



Thank You,
Bill O'Rourke

 

Exactly!!! There is only one thing worse than someone who creates items to deceive the public and that is the person who claims to be a dealer and sells such items to deceive the public.

 

I called ANA today to register a complaint regarding their endorsement of eBay who in turn endorses SGS. I am expecting a call back from Chris Cipoletti who is the Executive Director. I have also sent a link of this thread on to them. Hopefully soon we will not see the ANA Logo on eBay until eBay rectifies this situation. eBay should issue a warning instead of giving an endorsement.

 

Aboncom came on here before? Also, who is Pam Donelly? I'm referring to Cave Trolls post btw. Keep up the good work everyone!

 

How did this guy find out about this website/thread anyways?

 

I'm sure many of them are quite aware of the various collecting communities on the web & check them at times to see what's being said about them. The problem being they can see what we're saying & in turn find new ways to scam the unknowing.

 

Pam Donnely is also known as the Savannah Scammer and used the ebay id: pjd1966 (current id is thats_all_folks66, although some claim that she is now using a new id). She would show a misleading picture (routinely of a copy of a rare coin) and then say "Rare estate find, bidding on item in the picture. She would only accept money orders and then when the item was delivered and shown to be a copy she would avoid contact trying to drag the process out beyond eBay's time limit for assisting buyers with complaints. If you succeeded in getting her to accept the return it was less than a 50/50 chance that you would receive your refund, but you could be sure that your item would be relisted within days of her receiving it back. If you gave her a negative feedback then she would neg you back and say something like, "Non-paying bidder, avoid like the black death!!" She is now NARU'd, but like I said there are some who believe that she is back under a new name, but she doesn't sell all that many coins anymore, so the problem for us is minimal compared to what it used to be.

IIRC, Aboncom visited a number of months back and was very profane about some of the posts on the board and threatened lawsuits, but the post went away rather quickly. I actually saw the pjd posts, but I missed the aboncom ones because they'd been removed before I visited the site that day.

 

Hi,
A little investigation can prove fruitful. Here's a copy of another email sent to Ebay. Check out this third connection.

Steve, I Think i sunk Your battleship! Although you claim what you do in # 6 and #7 above, and this may be true, One must think about those claims. Please read the following:


Listing Violations > Fraudulent listings (illegal seller demands, you didn't receive item, etc) > You suspect that a listing is fraudulent you didn't bid

Item number(s):
8423257493
8421590211


Message: Hello,
I've sent other valid complaints to you in the past few days. There is what appears to be blatant fraud pertaining to the listing of what should be particular coins by various sellers, all of which keep showing the same picture for the items. Not only are they being used to sell the same items by two different sellers, ABON and AMERICAN PLUS COINS, someone else is selling as Mentone_Mercantile linking to the same picture used to sell the same item by ABON.

I know it's confusing but the two item numbers mentioned
( 8423257493 and 8421590211 ) show the same coins being sold by two different sellers. As in previous emails to you, I noted that you can right click to save the pictures from each item number and the pictures have the same names.

I have now connected ABON, AMERICAN PLUS COINS and MENTONE_MERCANTILE as sellers that appear to be selling in ways other than those permitted by Ebay.

Thank You,
Bill O'Rourke

 

Good work, very very good work. This person is definitely misleading buyers and it needs to be dealt with accordingly. Fraud is fraud.

 

Hi,
The thought of collectors getting cheated irks me. My next letter goes to the ANA.
Bill

 

Hi,
I don't post very often but I read a lot and I want to thank eveyone for not only bringing this problem public
but for also taking the time to try and actually do something about it.

 

I don't know if he got it this way, but I left a link to this thread on eBay coin forums under the thread titled 'SGS claims they are one of the top TPG's'. I thought it would be pretty interesting to see what happened to Midas and what StevesGiftShoppe has to say to defend SGS. Hope nobody minds-
Bill

 

I wonder why no articles about this have been in CoinWorld-has anyone thought to write Beth Deisher (editor) about it?

 

Is the same thing true for business accounts and large volume coin dealers?

Midas seems to have many tentacles and some interesting personas. After all the times he and I have gone head to head over any number of issues, I don't see him backing down from any stated position at this point. His mind seems to be the preverbal steel trap-nothing gets in. Content aside, your post is some of the best writing I've seen on CT in a long time. :thumb:

 

As I read through the posts (after 1,000 views), you can tell this subject hits a nerve with a bunch of people, including yours truly.

Nobody likes to be cheated. On the same side, us fellow numismatics who are passionate about our coins don't like to sit on the sidelines and watch other collectors get taken by these sellers. I surely don't and I am not afraid to call a "duck a duck"...actually, that is an insult to ducks!

At the F.U.N. show in Florida, I approached eBay's table and told them they should be ashamed of themselves and was politely asked to leave. Their contention was that, "it is a free market and we can't monitor every sale".

I replied, "B.S., especially when numbers of collectors contact you with SPECIFIC auctions and listings!"

Still, I think they were looking for security after I made my point. The point I am making here is that power comes in numbers. If I succeeded in alerting 10 people not to waste their money on these "70" plastic housings...great! Hopefully, they will tell 10 people who will tell 10 people and so forth.

I would encourage the forum to pass the word because waiting for eBay or the ANA to do something is NOT going to happen! Again, I want to thank all for their efforts.

Pass the word...

 

Well,
I am waiting for Ebays response, I also sent a letter to the ANA. I'll await their response. Depending on what happens next, I'll figure out where it can go from here.
Bill

 

BILL (A.K.A. FOUNDINROLLS)

Regarding your accusation, I thought this was a "friendly" board. Even so, I will do my best to reply to your concerns.

Regarding the photo posted in the sale of 8423257493, and other auctions, that, Sir, it is a stock photo. That's all. You will also find that the buyer posted POSITIVE FEEDBACK on 8423574793.

Regarding the other auction you cited, 8421590211, that auction is not my auction, and (as of the time this message is posted) is still in progress with one day and 21 hours to go and is not my auction.

You will find that many sellers will use a stock photo. There is nothing wrong with using a stock photo.

You will also find, that often I do use a specific photo of the item.

AUCTIONS USING A STOCK PHOTO: 7413656465, 7413656411, 8417885710

AUCTIONS USING SPECIFIC Photo Examples: 8417884580 (Roosevelt with die crack), 8414059199, 8416603468

Moreover, if someone asks for an additional photos, I have responded and sent additional photos. It seems that if you were asked for additional photos, you would respond and send them. Yes? No?