Kicked off the eBay boards AGAIN (this time, 30 days) c/o SGS "graded" coins!!

Midas, I'm all for what you're doing. Keep up the good work and I hope to join your cause. I would never want someone to place misleading graded coins to innocent collectors and non collectors.

 

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I noticed a lot of the Franklin commems were listed with a stock photo, or a pic from the mint website. I know it is a little different from the slabed thing, but I would like to see what I am buying. I made sure to have obverse and reverse pics of the Franklins I sold.

Midas ...keep up the good work, we all need to do more.:high5:

 

Ana

I thought the ANA and ebay were suppose to be working together to stop fraudulent coin sells and coin sellers.

Maybe the best approcah would be for those of us who are members of ANA to insist that the ANA either enforce the agreement with ebay and police the fraudulent sellers or pull out and stop pretending.

 

Ebay and TPGs have a lot in common and none of it positive...

 

For the ANA to do something, I'd think the seller would have to be an ANA member.

 

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/forum.jspa?forumID=8

 

http://pages.ebay.com/coins_code_of_conduct
This sounds like an ANA endorsement to me. Also in here is mention of mis-leading grades. Perhaps, as Farstaff mentions, we as ANA members should make a petition to ANA to withdraw their endorsement of eBay unless the problem is resolved. A hundred signatures would certainly get this noticed. I will sign up!

 

Personal Attacks Are Not Acceptable -- Anywhere -- Anytime

Zack: Please, give it a rest.

Zack, SINCE YOU HAVE, WITHOUT PERMISSION, introduced and mentioned my store in a false and negative light, it is only fair to offer this post here to set forth the truth, and have my say.

1. Before you go off and post any further attacks upon my store, or personal attacks upon me, or anyone else, I am going to ask that you go back and read the terms of use of this board.

2. Zack - I am going to ask you nicely, and publicly, to cease and desist your personal attacks upon me, upon my store, and upon my wife. SUCH PERSONAL ATTACKS GO FAR BEYOND ANY COMPLAINT YOU MAY HAVE ABOUT SGS AND ARE DEPLORABLE.

3. If you had observed the rules on Ebay's discussion board, you would not have been bumped for 30 days, which means that it was quite serious infraction. Don't blame it on anyone else but yourself.

4. In the past, on other boards, you have been INFORMED that SGS is not an owner in Abon.

5. In the past, on other boards, you have been INFORMED that Abon does not own any part of Star Grading Service, also known as SGS.

6. You have been told under very specific language, that Stevesgiftshoppe has no financial or legal interest in Abon, nor does stevesgiftshoppe have any interest whatsoever in Star Grading Service (SGS).

7. You have been given a cease and desist notice to no longer say or suggest publicly or privately, that Stevesgiftshoppe is one and the same as SGS. SO DON'T IT ANY MORE. THANK YOU.

8. Please stop your nasty posts.

9. A bit of wisdom: Revenge is like drinking hemlock and expecting the other person to keel over. YOU ARE ONLY HURTING YOURSELF.

10. Stevesgiftshoppe (my store) is a seller of coins, musical instruments, books and decorative items. In the coin arena, we offer PCGS slabs, NGC slabs, SGS slabs, and raw coins.

11. No matter what you say or do, I will continue to sell coins on any venue I so choose. If you don't like a brand that I sell, simply don't buy it. However, don't, and I mean, don't tell others to stop buying from me.

12. Because you have sold coins in the past, you are therefore classified as a competitor, and such false statements upon another seller does in fact constitute what is classified as unfair competitive practices.

13. ZACK (OR MIDAS) OR WHOMEVER YOU ARE, YOU NEED TO STOP AND TAKE A BREAK, AND PLEASE GIVE IT A REST. PLEASE.

14. If we ever meet at a coin show, I hope to be able to sit down with you and buy you a coffee and talk about it more.

So, FOR THE REST OF YOU ON THIS BOARD, you have now have read my side of it.

Please observe this request -- all of you.

Thank you.

 

He may have been informed of this, however it doesn't change that they are related. Just because they claim not to be doesn't make it so. Members here and on other boards across the internet have done the research on this and SHOWN the relationship.

Beyond them being related, SGS is universally deplored in the collecting community. One would think that to be enough for a dealer to not want to handle their items. Just my opinion of course.


I can't comment on the other items as I've never been on the ebay board to see either side.

 

Would seem to me that advertising coins as being a grade that they are almost universally agreed not to be, and/or certified by a grading company almost universally agreed not to be reputable or accurate, would be a blatant violation of this rule. I see nothing wrong with advertising something as "graded MS70 by SGS" but any auction that tried to claim SGS has a reputation for accuracy in their grades seems like a clear violation of this to me. As would any claim that SGS is a independent, third party grader, when it can be conclusively proven that they are not.

 

Steve, you may not sell your SGS coins at overinflated prices when you offer buy it now, however don't you feel the least bit dishonest when people buy coins from you thinking they got a great deal, only to find out that the person who grades coins for SGS doesnt grade on ANA guidelines?

 

I respect the fact that stevesgiftshopp had the guts to come and try to clear the air on this issue, BUT I didn't hear one thing from Steve that sounded like he admits or disclaims to sell coins that are designed to fool the unknowning/uneducated collector into thinking it is something it is not. Whether Steve is in cahoots with SGS and their phoney grading service is really a moot point to me. It is the fact that he is purposefully supporting the SGS racket and making a profit off of this himself. THIS IS WRONG!!!!!
I am new to coin collecting and I'm telling you STEVE that it angers ME and from the post I read about this subject is anger a great many collectors to know that OUR market is being infeltrated by SGS slabbed coins that are far from what they say they represent. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!!!!!

Why can't you and SGS make a living without deception involved. OH I know there are others that claim they are selling conservatively graded coins THAT ARE NOT! But this is about what you and SGS are doing.

If you are not in business with SGS then why take their side? Better yet why sell their product and bring all this grief down on yourself?

 

So you come to face the music I see? Better put on your dancing shoes!

Welcome to another REAL coin forum StevesGiftShoppe, or should I say zackg0ld (formerally ebay I.D. warrengacsi) or whatever your name is? Intentionally coming up with an eBay I.D. (zackg0ld) so you can impersonate yours truly??...tisk, tisk, tisk. What's the matter?...can't defend SGS/Aboncom on your own merit?? Can't defend SGS/Star Grading Service on how they package and market their own inventory with gold tape and MS/PR70 labels? What happened?, you cry to eBay that I alerted other collectors/lurkers about your (ahem) store and how SGS unethically markets these coins?

My goal...to alert and educate as many people as possible about the likes of SGS and powersellers who take their own inventory and sell them as (ahem) a "perfect" 70 coin. Your goal? To profit at the expense of "newbies" who think they are getting a true, independently, 3rd-partied, graded coin!

There's a bunch of smart collectors in this forum. eBay can't protect its powersellers in this forum so I give you credit that you left your safety harbor to take on the storm. You made some interesting claims, most notably that Aboncom and SGS aka Star Grading Service have nothing to do with one another (Your #4 and #5 points). Oh really? Excuse me as I have to laugh.



I guess we will let this REAL coin forum set you straight! Many know the true story of SGS and Aboncom from Ohio. This should be interesting.

BTW...if you feel my eBay posts that alerted others that Linda92359 (ebay I.D.) was nothing more than your wife and your California zip code (Mentone, CA) along with me asking you, "how do you sleep at night?" as personal attacks...well, again...we will let the forum decide. I think it is cute your wife created an ebay I.D. to slam me and defend SGS at the same time.

 

I've got to say MIDAS has got some convincing and damning information concerning fraud and I must give (Rd1) to him

B

 

Ironically, this is a terrible or excellent example of what is going on.

Why SHOULD a seller be so defended of his products if that is the source of problem??? The seller himself isn't a great example either - by referring to someone else the problem is nothing worse than not knowing what he is selling. Taking for example, if you are in the industries of illegal drugs, those who grow them are at fault, but those who resell it are equally wrong, as they should be knowing what exactly they are selling. Wrong analogy?

 

StevesGiftShop or I guess it's Mentone_Mercantile now it appears you're another seller like the one Bill discussed earlier who uses stock photo's instead of showing folks the exact coin(s) they're getting. Why?

 

fighting sgs

I for one hope these forum discusions continue. sgs needs to be stamped out, there are a lot of uninformed collectors buying modern MS 70 coins with that nasty gold label, that are getting no more than pocket change in a plastic case. It doesn't matter who sells these coins, it's just wrong.

 

I have been a member of Ebay since Dec 1997. Perfect 100% positive feedback. I went to bid on an Abon* coin so I could make my own evaluation of what they are doing. Can't buy one, They have me blocked in ebay as a buyer. That in itself tells me that something is amiss. I wonder if Steve would sell me a coin so that I can take a look at one of the coins. If its what they are advertised as I will post and praise accordingly. I don't claim to be an expert in coins, only been involved in collecting and dealing US coins for 37 years. Steve sell me an SGS slabbed coin. I reside down the raod from Abbotts in Michigan. Abbott's belongs to the less than one percent of coin dealers in the United States and Canada that meet the stringent requirements of "Knowledge, experience and responsibility" demanded by the Professional Numismatists Guild. I will take that coin to them and see what they say.

 

I'll have to send them a request to block me as well. I wouldn't want to accidentally buy from them. Maybe we should start a campaign and get as many people as possible to request that they be blocked from bidding on Abon items. Ebay can't object to that can they?

 

Welcome to the forum Steve (aka Stevesgiftshoppe, Mantone_Mercantile, Zackg0ld, Linda9259)! We hope that you will continue to visit and share your knowledge of coins and learn from our collective experience! I especially thank you for remaining civil with your language, the last couple of times that Aboncom and Pam Donnely (it's a long story) have visited they have left long profane diatribes behind and I appreciate you being more civil than that.

Actually, Midas has been invited by this forum to share his experiences on the eBay boards in his quest to protect the uninformed from the risk of purchasing SGS graded junk. We continue to want to hear what is going on regarding SGS, including who is peddling the *stuff*, and since the eBay seller Stevesgiftshoppe sells it we want to know about it.

Columbus was "informed" that the world is flat, but that didn't change the fact that the world is in fact round. The owner of SGS/Aboncom can deny the connection all they want but that doesn't change the fact that they are closely connected. If you would like more information on the connection please view the latter half of this thread. It outlines the connection between the owners of the SGS and Aboncom domain names. Basically the owner of the SGS domain (Chad Crider) lists his home page as www.abon.com. I don't know how much more clear the connection would have to be for you to admit the connection.

Actually, I haven't seen anything nasty from Midas yet. I have seen some posts where he makes the connection between Aboncom and SGS and a few where he has pointed out sellers who are selling SGS slabs, but that is all fact, and it is in no way nasty.

I searched your listings and you haven't offered a single PCGS/NGC coin in the last 3 months. During that same period of time you sold numerous SGS coins, so it seems clear to me that this statement was meant to make it look like you just sell the coins you have regardless of slab, but that isn't the case at all. In fact you sell SGS coins exclusively (during my search timeframe).

Midas is a respected member of our community and is also a respected member of the numismatic community. He has earned a lot of leeway with us over the years, with his constant willingness to share his wisdom and his desire to protect new collectors from the dregs of the numismatic community (like SGS, et al.) I think he is doing an invaluable service, I hope he continues to provide that service.

Nope, that is a perfect analogy. Sellers of SGS slabs are damaging the numismatic community whether they are the ones creating the slabs or just selling them to those who are unaware!


Steve, you now know why we (the numismatic community) dislike SGS/Aboncom. If you are an independent entity then please stop selling this garbage! This is the best way to keep the SGS stink off of your business! If you don't stop we are left with only 2 possible conclusions: 1)You are is conspiracy with SGS/Aboncom to defraud coin collectors or 2) You don't care that you are selling overgraded garbage to the ignorant. Neither conclusion paints wou in a particularly nice light, so please stop associating your business with them and by all means please stop defending these rascals.