Kashmir

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Spaniard, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. navin

    navin New Member

    Thanks for the interpretation. Below is the opposite side of the coin with the king holding a trident. I hope it gives some more clues. It is difficult to pinpoint the ruler. Could it be another version of Jaga deva specimen.
     

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  3. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    To me it looks like a ShRI Ja - VaNT. Nothing that matches these letters in Plant's book Greek, Asiatic, Semetic. The last three kings on Plant's list are Paramana, Avantideva, and Jaga Deva. The letters here look like a combination of the letters on those coins. ShRI from Shri Paramana, Ja from Jaga Deva, and VaNT from Avantideva.
     
  4. navin

    navin New Member

    To me it looks like an unknown ruler. I have not seen any other like this. I have some more coins which need to be looked into. Most of the remaining I have identified. I will upload some which are difficult.
     
  5. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    Very interesting coin! Not seen anything like this before...
    I'm away from home for a few more days so haven't got access to my notes but will look into this when I return..
    Just a couple of ideas to throw into the melting pot.........
    The Sri Ja seems to be the only character that everyone is agreeing on at the moment, and with the later style, gives us probably 3 rulers..Jayasimha, Jassaka and Jagadeva...?
    There is "Deva" on both sides of the coin signifying two rulers...Maybe a joint rule coin of "Jaga" and his son "Raja"....Or "Jassaka" and his son "Jaga".....There seems to be a symbol at 7 oclock on the reverse can't quite make it out at the moment but is reminiscent of some "Jayasimha" coins???
    As I said will take a good look in a few days...Paul
     
  6. EWC3

    EWC3 (mood: stubborn)

    Not my area of interest - but this looks to me rather like an issue Ken West attributed to Jaya Sinha Deva

    He suggested this reading - for his coin:

    (left) Sri Ja
    ........(Ya) Si

    Right Ra TNa
    .........De Va
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  7. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    I think this is a pretty good shout EWC3....(Ken West)...Thanks
    Jayasimha is renowned at having an array of different legend variants and the style seems to fit..Here are 4 from my collection... JAYA MINE.jpg
    Here is breakdown of what I'm reading not sure if I've written the "TNA" correctly please feel free to alter as necessary...
    Left....Sri Ja ya sim ha
    Right..Ra tna De va

    @navin would really help if you could post a full picture of the obverse just to see if there is a little bit more of the "Ha" visible?....and I'm still not sure why "Deva" seems to have been repeated on the reverse......???......Any thoughts anyone??....Paul Screenshot_20190508-221313__01 (1).jpg
     
  8. navin

    navin New Member

    Thanks so much for your expert opinion. I hope both sides uploaded together (shot in diffuse sunlight) would be useful. I feel the above mentioned version looks the most appropriate. However I feel that we might have to re think about the ya letter below Sri as well as the one adjacent to Ra. I can make out some leaf-like shapes at the bottom (either side of midline) where the feet should have been. One of them appears to be continuous with the Si. Moreover what is the significance of Ratna deva and is it a joint issue of Jayasimha and Ratna deva?
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the improved photos navin...

    They do clear up a few things...THCoins is a much better reader of the script than me....I now read on the right Radha ("prosperity, success") as he did...But still believe that the "ya" is correct, look at the different styles between my examples 1 and 4..Also I'm sure the "ha" is there..somewhere...
    Giving a reading of...Sri Ja ya sim(n) ha the "prosperous/successful" Deva

    As to the reverse I'm wondering now if its not just a repeat of Ja Deva..??

    I'd be really interested in other opinions..?? And some helpful alternatives?..Paul
    jaya id.jpg
     
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  10. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

  11. navin

    navin New Member

    Thanks to everyone for collective effort resulting in a convincing conclusion. Has anyone come across such type of coin? If so, it will be appreciated if you can please share the image so that we can gather more data on this coin. Before uploading some more difficult coins, I would like to share the image of one more coin (Avanti varman)and invite expert comments. Currently I am unable to upload these images for some unknown reason, therefore will try later. I started working on there coins for last one month. Therefore your valuable expert opinion is priceless to me.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  12. navin

    navin New Member

  13. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Avanti Varma was the first king of the early Utpala Dynasty.
    There is still a great similarity with the late type of coins in the name of Toramana II.
    ToramanaLateWeb.jpg
    The arm of Lakshmi has moved downwards to make place for the legend.
    I have no idea how one should interpret the structure to the right of the legs of the standing king on your coin. Does not really look like a text element.
     
  14. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Since I have nothing intelligent to add to this discussion, I'll do what the uninformed so often do in the other forums here: I'll post a YouTube video. ;)

    (Seriously, though, this thread reminds me that I'd like to own a piece of Kushan gold someday.)

     
  15. navin

    navin New Member

    @THCoins, great to have a discussion with you and everyone. It has been mentioned somewhere that the hand of king is holding a diadem (floral crown of royalty), which gives it a circular shape in some of the older coins. If it is a hand, then it might indicate the fingers with the thumb and index finger in opponens position(anatomical description of thumb - index finger movements). Somewhere here it was mentioned to have an octopus shape with flames of altar. The size varies considerably and it sometimes becomes out of proportion to the body(disproportionate depiction has been common practice in this part of the ancient world). A bigger hand symbolically might also indicate the great power of King.
    The shape besides the king's leg might be Jaya(in ?Brahmi) as mentioned in some places. Please correct me if wrong.
     
  16. navin

    navin New Member

    IMG_20190516_152031.jpg IMG_20190516_152129.jpg Jaga deva specimen, type 1
     
  17. navin

    navin New Member

    Possibly Jaga deva Type 2 IMG_20190516_152647.jpg IMG_20190516_152707.jpg
     
  18. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    To the left of the standing king is certainly an extended arm with hand above a fire altar. In the later types sometimes the thumb and index finger are clearly held in a pinch grip. On the right the flexed arm holds a trident. You might be right about the "Jaya"but i am not convinced by what i see.
    Agree with your Jaga Deva subtype attribution. Thi king's sides are a bit rotated though.
     
  19. navin

    navin New Member

    IMG_20190518_015404__01__01.jpg IMG_20190518_015404.jpg
    I think this might give some answer.
    In the Jaga deva coin type 2, one side shows the king below the chest while the reverse side of same coin shows Laxmi above the chest. Is it a common occurrence. It also indicates that the full image should be 20 % bigger.
     
  20. navin

    navin New Member

    Screenshot_20190519-091117__01.png Screenshot_20190519-091606__01.png Screenshot_20190519-091159__01.png
    Any clue about this coin? I am unable to decipher it. I thought it could be a Sugandha (looks unlikely) or starting with Aa( Ga?).
     
  21. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    SuGaNdha for your last one seems probable:
    Sughanda.jpg

    For your other one, here is the entry from Cunningham's "Coins of mediaeval India". He at the time read it as "Sri Jaya Siratna Deva".
    Ratna.jpg
     
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