John McCloskey collection

Did anyone else pick up something from the John McCloskey collection, last Sunday or the previous January FUN auction? I've never bought anything before based on pedigree, but I felt an affinity for Mr. McCloskey from my Barber dime research and wanted one of his. He was apparently first to publish regarding new obverse and reverse hubs for 1901, in a 1980 Coin World article. I picked up this 1903-S "thin ribbon" of his, to go with my 1903-S "thick ribbon" in the same grade.



It's twin but different, note the extra right ribbon fold:

I paid way too much for both, but at least I'm comforted knowing somebody else was willing to pay almost as much.

NGC has a brief write-up here: https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/9729/heritage-offers-ngc-certified-mccloskey-collection/

 

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I never knew he was so big outside of seated coins or the LSCC. Apparently he got around.

 

Nice pick up.

 

I was active in that sale but only for Capped Bust Half Dimes. I snagged 10 of them in last Sunday's auction, ranging from R-3 to R-7, some Details and some straight-graded. Pretty strong action in the bidding, at least for the more interesting and rarer CB HDs. I didn't follow the Liberty Seated coinage or the Classic Gold in the auction.

Here's a couple of those won at auction.

The first is an 1832 LM-11.1, Rarity 5, MS-62.

The second is a 1833 LM-2, Rarity 6 or 7 depending upon if you use the original LM rarity of 7 or more recent censuses which place it at R-6. This coin is graded AU-Details because it is bent.

 

The 1832 is a wonderful piece.

 

Never shopped for a pedigreed coin. I did do some hard bidding for several of Neil Armstrong's coins until they reached stratospheric levels..... And I would bid hard for a coin from Buddy Ebson's collection if the opportunity presented itself. Just because I was such a fan as youngster.

 

I guess their names on the labels (?) makes them sell for a super-rich premium, huh ? Especially if the coins are legitimately nice.

 

How do you get your name on a Label from PCGS or NGC ?

You just send in your coins, raw or previously graded, and say you want them graded/regraded and broken out (if encased already) and slapped with the special label ?

 

Well, yes and no. Provenance is important to some collectors but not to others. The name on the label is not the provenance but it does eliminate any future uncertainty about a piece of the coin's history. And some names are more important than others. Usually, the name on the label does not impart a premium but that's not to say it cannot. So, as in all things numismatic, there is no single and simple answer - It all depends.

In the McCloskey auction, I can guarantee you that there was at least one bidder (me) that wanted at least one coin if only because McCloskey was a key figure in the numismatic research of several early series. But most of us were primarily interested in the coins because a number of them represented unusual and/or unique representatives of rare die marriages and/or die states.

Also, most of the half dimes in this auction did not sell for super-rich premiums and some of the premiums were only modest, not super-rich. But there were some very rich bids on a few coins, some of which surprised me.

 

I checked out the sale on Heritage, I checked out his Classic Head Gold Coins, there weren't that many, maybe 15 or so. Some of them were cleaned but all were nice. I decided against bidding nothing against McCloskey or Heritage but I was basically window shopping!

 

Nice F12 thanks for sharing.

 

The Neil Armstrong collection was surprisingly mundane from a numismatic perspective. The bidding on those coins went stupid high so I backed off. But @Publius2 said it best. Numismatic buyers are buying the quality of the coin. I’m sure the Armstrong coin bidders were probably not numismatic buyers. Probably more along the lines of guys that collect space memorabilia…. And if you ever think coin collecting is expensive? Look at what some of the space stuff hammers at!

 

I'm a space collector as well as a coin collector and I agree that hammer prices are really crazy on some space items. Regarding the Armstrong family collection, Heritage was very careful and did not say that the coins came from Neil Armstrong but from the Armstrong family. According to someone at Heritage, Neil Armstrong's father was the coin collector. I put in a bid on an STS-29 patch which under normal circumstances is a $20 patch. I figured what the heck, it belonged to the first man to walk on the moon, I dropped out at $150, the patch ended up selling for over $800.

Like coins, space collecting is full of mine fields especially forged signatures from the era of Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo.

 

Sorry! I need an intervention. I have 4 of these lower grade 1903-S 10c now - 3 thick and one thin. The thick ribbon (it's actually Reverse 3 now) is the "correct" type, but is scarce relative to the "wrong" thin ribbon version. I find that fascinating. Too much so. I wanted the McCloskey coin to have the thin version, and started watching it first, but then the thick one popped up and that auction was earlier. My coin budget is "spent" for a while!

 

When I scrolled through the catalog, I couldn't believe how many "Details " coins there were. Surely some of those coins could have been upgraded.

 

I was going to bid on some CBHs but they also went way too high. There were also some halves that were clearly cleaned or scratched that were in straight holders. NGC seemed very generous with straight grades - I am not sure if I sent them in I would have received the same treatment.

 

There's a clue about that in the listing for his 1842-O 25c Small Date AU58:

"Although we cannot say for sure, it is almost certain that John McCloskey purchased this coin as a Large Date example, as John's numismatic budget generally did not allow for the purchase of condition census pieces."

So he cherry-picked it, and I get the impression that he just wanted examples of every variety he could find without necessarily looking for the best. A "just to have one" style like my own perhaps. I did notice the large number of Details coins. I popped in and out waiting for my lot to come up and there was some intense live bidding going on for certain coins.

Since he is credited with discovering the Barber dime design types, I was surprised by how few he had - 1895-O, 1896-S, 1901-S, 1903-S, and 1905-O Micro O. The "keys" and all in low grade or details. Also surprising that neither the 1901-S or the 1903-S had the "thick ribbon", which is what he discovered. The "thin ribbon" for those two dates is the common version. Of course a lot of them could have passed through his hands and these keys were just the ones he kept.

 

That's funny, he was just in an Andy Griffith Show rerun last night, the one where he plays a drifter with questionable ethics.

 

Pedigreed coins can be good or bad. The good part is that you get to own a coin that was once owned by a well know collector. The bad part is when they are first auctioned off, they usually sell for a high price. Great for the person or estate selling them not that great for the collector.

I have a number of coins that are pedigreed to big time collectors but, they weren't bought the first time they were sold. What I've noticed is that once the original auction is over and the coins are then sold in a future auction mixed in with other coins they seem to sell for less money. Not aways but very often do.

John McCloskey is well known to many people but, I didn't see his coins drawing the excitement that was generated by the sale of the Pitman collection or Bass collection. The coins sold in the recent Heritage auction were mainly good "collector" coins. I didn't see any coins that I would consider high end. Don't be surprised to see some of his coins being sold at another auction later this year or in the next few years and realizing a much lower price.